Do you hate the U.S?

But a lot of them are bible waving and they are ruining this country by basing laws off of religion.

It's very hard to be patriotic in this country if you see what's happening. Fuck, I barely even trust this government, seeing as the only things they bitch about is democrat, republicans, democrat, republican. Then, the fucking people with their blind worship when it comes to public figures, where Obama is the perfect example.
They make us say the pledge of allegiance like we're in some dictatorship. As time goes on, this country deserves less to be called, "the land of the free." It's hard to be patriotic in such a country.

Are we in the same country? Because the only law I can see that's REALLY influenced by the bible is gay marriage.

I believe there are only 7 countries that allow it, so get over it.

Because that's going to change things for the better.

Better than whiners who complain everyday. How is gay marriage supposed to make life better? Does it really make a statement about freedom? No, it just makes a statement that we don't give a shit about world population and the course of natural history.

I wish you were there to tell that to martin luther king.

First, did I say life?(though I was vague I didn't specifically target life)
Second, it makes their life better.

Uh, fuck yes it does. Saying some people can't do something because they like certain people is a freedom issue.

Martin Luther King had something to argue about and the African Americans were suppressed. Are homo-sexuals oppressed today? Fuck no. A homo-sexual judge can make a decision to completely ruin a models career just because she doesn't agree with his opinion? Who is the one being oppressed? Homo-sexuality is allowed anyway, so what's there to complain about? I know there are legalities involved with marriage but this is a religious ceremony, so in reality, the church goers opinion should make a hell of a lot of difference for their own religion. Unless we're taking away their rights to express free religion. I'm fine with gays getting benefits. But for them to intrude on a ceremony that these church goers hold sacred is kind of a bitch move.


I think this argument is semi-explained in my above paragraph.

Oh I say religion plays a far bigger role in U.S. politics than just gay marriage. It's kind of sickening to be honest. Laws are one thing if it protects or defends the safety and rights of an individual, but when a law is created just for the sake of morality it's annoying as all Hell.

Like with gay marriage. I always thought the simplest argument was the best. Why do you care? Who does it hurt? It's not like it forces anyone to marry someone of the same sex. Keep your morality to yourself and respect the views of others. Last time I looked most religions preached tolerance. What's wrong with letting people do what they choose, especially when it makes no difference to you.

Tell me something else regarding a law infulenced by religion besides gay marriage. (Besides the ones that are directly related to religion itself)



This brings us to a conundrum. The religion teaches that it's a sin. It's their RIGHT to practice this religion which puts a ban on gay marriage. It's also the homo-sexual's RIGHT that they should get married. So who is right and who is wrong? Obviously they're both fighting based on opinion if you really look at it from a spectator's view point.

People may say the religions don't have a right to be against gay marriage since it's not hurting anyone, but it's their belief. You might shirk this off as a minor detail, but religion is all about belief and it's their everything. So if you decide to take this away from them, it can shake an important part of a foundational belief the religion has been founded on.

Same with the homo-sexuals. Do they really need this religious ceremony to bind themselves? No. But it's their belief that their lives will have more meaning if they do get married.

So again, we're brought to a conundrum. Who is right? Do we as spectators have the right to even complain or stick up for one side or the other? Probably not.

Well for one the recent fact that lolicon is illegal in New Zealand and has been attempted a few times in the U.S. I'd consider that an issue of morality over legality. It's a depiction of a minor so no actual child is either physically or emotionally scarred, and there is nothing that corellates fans of lolicon to pedophiles, so that is all a quesiton of morality to me.

As for the beliefs why can't it just be about yourself? I mean it's you and God. I know a lot of Christians think they have a mandate to spread their beliefs, but to me that's just nonsense. It's okay if you believe it. Even though I'm an Atheist I think it is good to firmly believe something, but why can't it just be you and God. Why do you have to care if a person sins or is immoral. If you think homosexuality is immoral than that is your perrogative, but if the country as a whole allows it is that really going to affect your relationship with God?

(I say you as a broad term of me identifying Christians, not you specifically.)

Edit: Well I'm gonna stop there. I'm all for conversations like this, but sometimes I get too heated for my own good, but I'd be more than happy to keep going over PM or Skype or something. XD

@Pd: Rbz and Tsurayu both have valid points. Religion plays a huge role in our politics. Everything from censorship, gay marriage, abortion, ten commandments in government buildings, the list goes on.

Anyways, on the topic at hand. I'm an American, I love my country but, my complaints about the general idiocy that seems to be taking hold of the people like some sort of stupid plague. Another complaint is the way the government has been ignoring the very principals of what it was to be American.

I love my country(land) and I believe it is the best. We have a variety of terrains and awe inspiring views. Especially, when traveling through the Appalachian mountains or new england. As for my government, the founding principals (such as the constitution) are what I believe to be the best crafted legal documents in history but, the current incarnation of government as well as those that have been around in our lifetimes are nothing less than sickening to me.

It has it's flaws but, there is nowhere else I would want to call home.

You failed to mention how this has anything to do with religion. This is only a child law to a bigger law that states you should not engage in sexual acts with a minor which should be a moral followed by everyone regardless of religion. (This doesn't mean I agree with the banning of lolicon hentai...)



Even with the sentence in the paranthesis, you seem to be making a lot of assuptions about me in your paragraph.

First of all, I'm against homo-sexuality for completely different reasons. I think it would be stupid to hate on something without having a good reason or moral (which a lot of religious laws have been good with though I don't necessarily follow them). If you really want I can lay down the reasons why I don't like homosexuality, but I won't do it in this post since it will further derail this thread. (We're actually still on topic of why people might hate US so we're good)

But in your post you said why are the christians spreading their beliefs to everyone? (Okay I lied about not derailing) That's what they're told to do by their God. You also said why would they intrude on homo-sexual way of life and try and stop them for marrying? I'm pretty sure you got this backwards. The homo-sexuals are the ones intruding on religious activity as marriage was started by religion. If you read my previous posts it might have made it clear.

I'm sorry. I'm really not trying to single you out or anything. Just what I think of Christianity as a whole. And you do have me with the marriage thing I suppose, but times change and there is nothing wrong with redefining the sanctity of marriage.

Oh well, it's all a difference of beliefs. I'm extremely left-winged, Nihilistic and an Atheist, so you can say I'm as dead set in my ways as and religious person is, but I actually like that. I do have a bad habit of getting too into these discussions and getitng myself into hot water, but I enjoy them because they are controversial and you always get different opinions on the matter.

No problem.

But yes times do change, but does everything get redifined with the times? No.

I don't think anyone has the right to change the religious laws unless mandated by the religion itself. We don't have a right to intrude upon their holy laws. This is what gets me is the hypocricy of it all. People who fight for gay marriage say religions have no right to try and stop gay marriage, but they themselves who are fighting for this ideal of freedom are stomping on the freedom of religion.

I suppose. I guess that's why nothing has been decided on a clear cut basis.

It is basically an example of both parties thinking they are being taken advantage of, and their freedoms and beliefs being denied. I guess the best anyone can do is just decide to follow what they believe with all of their heart, as cheesy as that sounds. XD

Although I do wonder where you got the idea that the sanctity of marriage is a universal Christian believe. The concept of marriage can arguably oudate the concept of Christianity (no one really knows.) So it is hard to argue that a union that is against a particular Christian belief denies the concept to begin with.

Edit: Nevermind. I think this should end on a peaceful note like it has. I won't say another word. XD

I see you made a sneak post there FPOD...


They did have a point, but seeing as how they weren't able to offer another law of sorts to base their opinion, it didn't matter since all they thought about was the gay marriage.

As for the other laws you mentioned:

Censorship: Totally true, and no arguments there. Slipped my mind.

Gay Marriage: Definitely seeing as how it involves religious issues.

Abortion: This one... From arguments I have seen the strongest argument I've seen has been non-religious. It's also used more often and religion is just a little back-up, so I wouldn't really say this issue really deals with religion.

Anyways, on the topic at hand. I'm an American, I love my country but, my complaints about the general idiocy that seems to be taking hold of the people like some sort of stupid plague. Another complaint is the way the government has been ignoring the very principals of what it was to be American.

Ten Commandments in Government buildings: So what? How is that directly related to laws that govern this land? Not in the least as the government officials completely bypass what the Ten Commandments say anyway. I have a giant painting in my room, but that doesn't make me someone who appreciates art.


Nailed it spot on. Our government sucks ass right now...

i just there attitude thats all
ummm not all the americans
some of them
that's all

So you want another Hitler? Because that’s what happens when the powerful nations of the world decide that you know what that Hitler dude isn't fucking with us I mean he’s over there like half the world away he'll never come over here. Who gives a fuck about all of those people he's killing he isn't killing us.


Yeah but their doing the right thing in their minds. In their world god exists and their just trying to keep us out of Hell is that so wrong? Don't get me wrong I don't believe in god and I hate all those stupid laws they put forth but I don't hate them for it, because I know their just trying to do the right thing in their minds.


You actually gave it a mathematical score really? You think a countries worth can be calculated mathematically? The reason I hate 9/10 shit is because it acts as if it can be compared to something else and when it comes to countries is not everyone to different to compare? At least that’s what I think.


Oh yes I like how you don't mention that men have oppressed women since before the middle ages. Even today in the U.S women are paid 70% a man makes. Sure America talks all about how were equal but no one’s be equal for a long ass time. Women are just trying to get back at men for all the shit we have given them over the years. Is it right? No but it's just how humans work you did this to me now I'm going do this to you. So no not Nuff said sometimes you have to look at it from the other side.

I'm kind of pissed off right now, so no holding back.(some life issues) I'll also spoiler it because it's long and off topic.




When you make it sound so nice then no, but by going around telling us atheists god hating worthless piece of shit blasphemers that the only possible happiness is god (which isn't proven and the story itself sounds like a huge fairy tale to make them feel better) and that we must repent, then I really think, "is that so wrong?" is out of the question. I doubt they care about me, as they are only spreading the "word of god." If they really do care about me and I told them to piss off then they should piss the fuck off.

Thaaaaank you! Based on all fairness, people like us would rather leave everyone alone to their own devices and personal freedoms (to an extent). There was one episode of Morgan Spurlock's '30 Days' where a WASP mom went to live with a gay couple and their adopted children. She almost literally couldn't stop crying, shaking her head, or acting self-righteous. One of the dads got into a discussion with her, saying that her desire for gay marriage to be illegal infringed on them, but if it was legal it would no way infringe on her. But she said it would. Never explained how.

Here's a message to you:

Religious people are trying to impose their views on us, under the supposed guise of helping us out of hell. Really, they're just a bunch of uptight control-freaks who cannot stand the idea of people acting and thinking differently from them. Here's why:

If they are really trying to keep us out of hell, then laws would not work. Laws are rules that humans lay down, they would restrict behavior based on what humans say and not what god says. One could obey the laws but be secretly deviant from their spirits, ie, not in the same belief structure. They're still dammed since they don't believe in god. We act nice but don't think it, and it's feelings and belief that determine whether St. Peter sends us on the escalator up or down, and they wouldn't be believing it for themselves.

To be truly 'true' to their mission statement the world's wasps, catholevilics, and morgaymons would have to alter our thoughts.

People think they've got a good argument because they skipped over some minute details that's already been posted... I'm pretty sure you conveniently skipped over what I said about the origins of marriage which makes it pretty much a religious rite from the beginning.



Again, skipping over details that I've already posted:


If you're not smart enough to pick up my message from this, then I have nothing further to argue, cause it might get too complicated...



How is it a douche idea? The ceremony of marriage was created by religion. If you think about it, that's all I said. I never said the union between a couple belonged to religion.

When the fuck did we bring statues in? This is a completely different situation. What you're talking about is also known as defacement of public/private property. Relevant? No.



Again, seeing as how it's a religious matter how is it the states problem?

It's like Waar's waifu game (Sorry Waar). Even if the scale is different, it's the same basic idea. He said, "If anyone has less than 50 posts, they can't pick waifus." In normal circumstances that would be considered discrimination. But why can't the state put a ban on it (besides the fact that it's such a small matter)? Because it's Waar's idea and Waar's game.

Now if Waar said, you can't choose waifus outside of our game, THEN we've got an issue.

Just like the church, though they are against homo-sexuality, all they're saying is don't use their religious ceremony to bond against their laws. But do they try and forcefully stop gays from having sex? No, I think not. (Though, there are fanatics out there who might)



Gays can be equal outside of religion. Since, when do gays care about a religious bonding anyway? Just get a social bonding, the end.



Fair enough. As I said, make sure they aren't intruding on religious ceremonial laws and by legal law, all that's required legally is a marriage license. Nothing more, nothing less.



I don't see a mass slaughter or an intrusion upon human rights. Union between gays are okay. Just make sure they aren't doing a ceremony.

I'm pretty sure if you read my posts correctly you might have picked these up yourself. Try arguing my points after your done with a PMS storm with God, and you might find it in your decency to actually comprehend my posts.