Guns/gun ownership (relevant only for USA'ers)

So, I was thinking;
Now personally, I love guns. If I could I'd love to have a Sig P220, Stetchkin APS, one each of the M-16 and P-90 as well as a Dragunov SVD and a Barret M82.

But, I dislike how easy it is to acquire illegal guns. There is no follow-through with second-hand gun sales; you can sell your gun to any gangbanger on the street or random whackjob at a gunshow.

My idea is to have handgun owners subject to random ATF inspections to make sure they still are in possession of a firearm, and any sale of personally owned handguns must be recorded and subject to the same rules as dealer-citizen transactions. No restrictions imposed on gun owners, they must simply be prepared to, at any time, to prove they still possess the gun they bought.

I posed this idea as a youtube comment on the video of William Shatner shooting a black guy three times and remarking "Thank God for guns" (yes, I know it's from Boston Legal) and got a reply stating to the effect that my idea to cut down on illeigal guns was bunk because the second amendment was to serve as the last line of defense against a tyrannical government.

Well...that argument holds no water at all. Police/military hardware is so much beyond what a citizen can possess, seems like that possibility is already gone.

What do you all think?

Correct. Like I said in another thread, that "defence against a tyrannical government" argument is null and void. Apart from the hardware, the military and police consist of professionals trained in warfare and counter-guerilla/counter-riot tactics. And yeah, armies do have plans on the shelves to defend from internal uprisings. Unlike the age of muskets and cold steel weapons, you simply don't stand eye-to-eye with the military.


Sorry, but I find that idea terrible. It's a carte blanche for random house searches, all the other problems I have with this idea aside.

That idea is horrible and doesn't that infringe on the 4th amendment that the guns are to be searched. Now owning illegal guns, can be a problem but what are you going to do. People can scratch off serial codes and sell them to random people so you don't know where the gun belong to. It is really hard to fix.

i just want a desert eagle .50 cal or two and baret sniper rifle that's all

If only you could mod the Eagle to fire the BMG round too...lol

I'm on the side of guns it's the 2nd amendment and should be respected. Illegal guns are a serious problem and they should be cracked down on more. Here’s a plan how about all that effort in making legal guns impossible to get into stopping illegal guns.

Random search’s no that’s all.

About the police military problem yes it’s impossible the army has tanks and well…. enough said.

My thoughts on the 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment says “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” I still believe this. Now in the small chance the U.S was invaded without gun’s we would just get fucked up the ass. The other side might say but it’s militia going up against an army. Well wouldn’t giving up without a fight and helping out the military retake the country help? Small forces can cause massive damage even to the strongest militaries. Now while they probably won’t win it helps pave way for the military to re-conquer the area.


Oh and FUCK YES! Thats my Shit!

I don't know much about guns, because I don't care about guns, but I do know that there is no reason at all for any regular citizen in the US to own a rocket launcher. Or a machine gun, really. What are you going to do with a machine gun? Shoot an intruder in your house? Yeah, that'd be smart. Shoot the burglar, along with all the stuff he's trying to steal.

Even if the government somehow became "tyrannical," and citizens needed to stand up for freedom, it'd be moot, as others have already said. Even if every citizen of a city owned a fucking rocket launcher, if the government was evil and wanted to get rid of the city, what would stop them from bombing the fucking place?

As for another country invading the US, that's why we have a military! That's why we have so many lines of defense, to ensure that we can fight overseas as well as on our own soil. I can't imagine any scenario where a citizen with a machine gun could actually help against an invasion. If the enemy can overpower our military, then they're sure as hell going to overpower citizens.

I'm not completely against guns. Handguns can be very useful. I have heard stories where lives have been saved because someone had a handgun (and it's not all home invasion stuff either). But those stories involved handguns, not sniper rifles or machine guns or even shotguns.

While I agree that citizens should have the right to bear arms, I don't think it should be at the level where people should worry about the government breathing down their necks, nor should civilians worry about getting firearms beyond their reach when there's no need.

Other things to note:
The M-16 variant for public sale is the AR-15. (The M4 is not)
FN P90 also has a civilian version as well.
I don't think the Dragonuv SVD is available for public sale.
As for the Barret M82... what are you trying to do, shoot down vehicles and personnel over a mile away? Definitely not for public sale.

About why people would want them is for a collection. I would very much like a large gun collection if I could muster up the cash for it. It’s like why collect all that anime stuff for a collection. People collect guns because they like them, not just for use.

As for the second point look at the French resistance hell look at the Taliban, the U.S fucking rapped both Afghanistan and Iraq’s militaries, but were having trouble with people who use small arms. Small groups of resistance fighters can become a big problem for a powerful military.

Dragonuvs SVDs are for sale
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131030321
not an SVD but still got same caliber and semi

If people want to collect guns, then how about we make them impossible to fire? Wouldn't that be fine?

And yes, small groups of fighters can be powerful, but compared to the US military, it's nothing. The reason the US is having trouble in other countries is because we have scruples. But if the government stopped giving a damn and started acting like a tyranny, then bye-bye scuples, hello unstoppable force that doesn't hold back. If the country changed in such a way that the citizens should stand up and rebel, then I'm pretty sure that the country wouldn't mind bombing a city off the map.

Frankly I want an mini Ruger 14. Maybe even a Kar-98k or a M1 Grand for historical purposes. And for those worried about tanks I'm not going to disclose it on the internet but I will mention it's a bitch to get a seven hundred kilo rock where you need it. Also it's a smart idea to consider the fact that the second amendment is indeed to keep the government in check, that's the only reason we haven't ended up like Iran because even though Iran has freedom of speech they don't have anything to back it. I shall quote the second amendment here as some people don't seem to understand and this crap about the ATF is kinda pissing me off. "A militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed." Now some people say that there's a comma separating the people from keep and bear arms, but it's funny how that's all the fools could find to challenge such obvious wording.

The thing is, if the US suddenly started acting like Iran, all the guns people keep in their parlors wouldn't change a thing. The US military is fucking huge and is not to be messed with.

Yeah maybe but bowing down and taking it up the ass isn't exactly the way I would want to go. As for taking on the U.S military look at the Viet Cong they beat us. Small forces armed with small arms can stall or even halt large military forces. Now could a militia beat an army in full out combat no, but you don’t need to fight fair. Small forces have proven time and time again that they can dish out serious power. As for tanks that is what RPG’s and IED’s are designed to take out. If you need an example look at the IRA they beat the British military down till they gave in if that’s not example enough I don’t know what is.

While i'm all for protecting our constitutional rights. a random citizen does not need a loaded rocket launcher. I hate how the NRA and a lot of gun owners yell and bawww anytime someone suggest that people don't need to get every type of gun out there.

Just a question to you personally. What is the average citizen supposed to defend themselves with if the government went Facist/Despot? The idea of "It'll never happen here" isn't a valid counter argument. Unless people had the ability to stand up for themselves with their own weapons then the average citizen is nothing more than cattle.

Just take a look at history.

Edit: not trying to push or anything. I just want your input.

Then again I'm in one of those back water mid-west (Michigan to be exact)states that allows open carry. I can't speak for everyone. From what I've seen for myself When it comes to gangbangers you will be surprised to see how quick that thug-life attitude goes out the window when they see everyone in the store, gas station, or restaurant has something 38 caliber or better. They get on there best behavior. If you let the citizens defend themselves the police get a simpler job and the place gets safer. This goes for Urban areas too.



I could kiss you for that one.

There is a city in Ga, just north of Atlanta called Kennesaw, Ga. In 1981 they passed a mandatory gun ownership law for all heads of households. Since that law was enacted the crime rates for the city have dropped even dramaticly when the law was first enacted.

Link

Data Tables at bottom of Article.

Better version if you don't trust free republic



That's fine just no kissing on the lips.

a hug or high five would also work. ^^

In Vietnam, we were fighting in a small space with a lot of jungle. The Viet Cong knew the area and knew how to take advantage of it. Also, a lot of the soldiers were young and inexperienced, not really the cream of the crop. Now, we have a lot more weapons, the soliders are better, and in the US, there is a ton of space.

The way I see it, if the government decided to take a U-turn and become totally evil, they wouldn't hold back in any respects. They could drop a nuclear bomb on New York City, just to show that they could. How could regular citizens fight nuclear bombs or missiles or soldiers in full armor?

Furthermore, a lot of citizens are simple and don't want to fight. Even a lot of people who own guns know nothing of actual warfare. The average American citizen is too cozy to fight back and win.