Hey, SD, I got a question for you.

Why is it that so many users around here seem to think that their opinion is the only "correct" one? Now now, before all of your jimmies get rustled, this is a serious question. I used to hang around SD when I thought I could genuinely get some serious discussion done, but I was sorely let down. Too many threads devolved to two or three users inanely bickering among themselves and the main topic of discussion was lost. I myself was guilty of this on several occasions, but I would stop after I cooled my head and looked at things again from a calmer standpoint. In a mature discussion different opinions and viewpoints are presented and discussed, nobody tries to eviscerate the ideas of another (generally). Why can't we get more people talking about intelligent topics and trying to understand for the perspectives of other users? What's stopping it from happening? Pride? An undeserved feeling of superiority? I'd really like to see this go in a direction that doesn't make me cringe when I usually think about heading over here.

[color=FFFFFF]I bet this comes across as pompous, but then it'd just fit in with SD more.

Honestly I find this hard to comment on. I believe its easy to understand why it happens. Yet it is hard to put into words. I might just be lacking a viable vocabulary though.

Some people are plainly inept and can't understand other ways of thinking. Either due to being raised closed minded or just a lack of education.

Some people are just stubborn and even if they know they're wrong they won't admit it.

Some people just think they're right and others should be the same way.

None of these is exactly wrong. Its just nature.

It also depends on maturity and Intelligence. However even the most intelligent and mature person would get riled up if his/her emotions were set alight.

I believe its nature to fight when you can't get your way. Its a fundamental thing about being a living being. Beings who can't see eye to eye tend to fight. Sometimes on a global scale. That's why wars starts. Remember, might is right. I'm not saying its how the world should be.

It's gotten to the point of humanity where a good majority of people instantly label themselves as the "correct/chosen" person for everything. This goes people on any side of any spectrum.

If it's a religious discussion, some religious people will state that God is real and say that the rest of wrong, the more extreme ones will reject all other beliefs. If it's an atheist, it gets to the point of insulting the religious people to the end and just keep criticizing them. Case in point, many atheists just follow a hive mentality where if any religion (besides Christianity) does something, they always pin it back to Christianity and call it as bad or worse, instead of talking about the issue at hand. The extreme Christian people won't stop talking about how others are going to hell for all eternity. However, both sides are as ignorant as the other.

There is also the debate on ANY sort of article or video, talking about a SPECIFIC person and like always, SOMEONE who dislikes the person in a personal level, will "retaliate" about the person. For example, I'm in a Facebook group about humanism, one of the admins or the admin brings up Richard Dawkins and something he said, out of NOWHERE, a woman just completely bashes him and says he is nothing since Dawkins stated that "women aren't funny" and just has to take this article, that doesn't even talk about what he said. Sometimes these people get aggravated and even make a big deal out of it. You know who the person is talking about, so why post up a mean thing? To get attention? To seem like a cool rebel? There is a limit to annoyance and if all one does is get personal over it, don't bother getting into discussions at all.

Some people think that a label does wonders for them and that they are in fact, the only person who is correct in the subject at hand. Old people or young people, they label themselves anything and bam, instantly know what is right and wrong. I hate to bring up religious examples, but I need to. A lot of teenagers and college students have gotten to the point of calling themselves atheists and rejecting everything, like I said before. Same goes for many people of the same age calling themselves liberal. They completely ignore the arguments the other side makes and completely bash them to no end at times. In many class discussions, the "liberals" have always wanted to shut down conservatives to the point that it got personal to them. I even heard such "arguments" such as: "You're nothing but a dumbass conservative", "Obviously, since you're white, you're a redneck" and even "You're a traitor, the conservatives are white only" (directed to a brown latino and black student) in said discussions. In religious discussions, for some odd reason, it is okay to fully insult Christianity and Judaism and no holds barred attacks are allowed, but anyone be damned if anyone touches any other religion, gets to the point of "Don't know you that Christianity brought the Inquisition and Crusades?!" Yeah, about five hundred years ago and about a thousand years ago. Why is that even an argument?

Even then, it all comes down to "don't you get it? FREEDOM OF SPEECH" for these people with bad attitudes. For some odd reason, only they (and people on their side, some go as far as only allowing people who agree with them 100% on everything) are allowed to say anything they want and everyone else can shut up and never bring up any counter points. Not letting anyone else get in the way of their idea. In fact, it is an abuse of freedom of speech since they don't allow others to voice their opinions but neglect that fact. They think they are right, they "know" they are right and think they can bring a new age of thinking because they have these "all-knowing thoughts and ideas" and everyone else is oblivious. If anything, they start looking more like ignorant people who just love their side too much.

In short THIS





That made me remeber my ages as an asshole. Luckily i grew up from that. I occasionaly start to argue If the complete asshole pisses me off, but thats another story.

Now i try to research it if i dont know anything about the topic. Saves from embarrasing moments.

Why most people think they speak absolute truth, is that they havent learned the lesson of humility. And about ego.

It's because introspection is much too few and far between.

The most valuable, and under used phrase in any language is "i don't know". either that or "why?". i think it's so hard for people to say because it seems like an admission of inferiority. the fear of being seen as less than those around you can be a very powerful motivator for some.

'there is nothing more dangerous than a true believer'*. that ides alays come to mind when i see someone claiming they 'know' about a subject. it doesn't matter the subject, as soon as a person thinks they know something, they tend to stop trying to learn.

"A wise man knows nothing, and I know less"
-A.C.




* [size=10]i can't remember where i heard it, but i think they were talking about religion.[/h]

Conflict is human nature, it is hard for someone to change the way they feel even when a logical argument is put in front of them.

"When pride comes, then comes disgrace but with the humble is wisdom."

To put it simply, they're just not mature enough to accept their mistakes.

If convinced of an opposing argument I will respectfully concede and if the encounter is in person I will offer to by them a drink to further discuss the topic. I will however maintain the idea that incredible claims require incredible evidence. If I am at all in practice not obeying my preferred mentality I will take all claims suggesting as much seriously and if it is the case I'll gladly buy a drink for whoever corrects me (assuming it was brought to my attention respectfully, if not I will still amend my practice without offering a free drink)

I try to keep an open mind on most things. Just as I don't exactly believe that I can call myself an atheist because although I'm not religious I also can't prove that a god doesn't exist in some form or that this is all going along the lines of a plan from an intellect so superior we could not begin to understand. At the end of the day though you have to form an opinion on something if at all possible and sometimes those clash. Nobody likes to believe they are wrong after putting thought into something it's called confidence. It can't be helped really.

Often times there isn't really a right or wrong answer.

It's how people are. They may think that their answer is the most plausible one, so they argue that it actually is the best (and occasionally only) answer. Think of it like having a hunter and a PETA person arguing about animals, but somewhat less extreme. They may be able to see the other person's points, but they certainly don't understand why they're supported and both try to explain why they believe what the other person sees as impossible to believe.

It's mostly pride or how some people view themselves as a superior intellectual.

I guess because some people dont like to research to find out the truth or be open to opinions when they might be wrong. (-n-) I haven't been here much but from that Im guessing they dont debate or have a calm discussion about the topic at hand. I don't even want to know what goes on around here if the only thing thats left is bickering and superiority "Hey Im right your wrong always!" complex.

Most of us often forget that a discussion isn't necessarily always a zero-sum game. Different perspectives of the same point, different arguments built on similar assumptions, opposing sides that eventually lead to the same conclusion..the list goes on. Misunderstanding? Overly-stubborn? Classic net troll? It's also difficult to not get emotionally charged when the topics involved are dear to us. Just look at the divide between vanilla supporters and ntr supporters. If it's a mathematical or logical discussion based on empirical data, the line between reason and immaturity is clearer. Social topics unfortunately have a greyer line involved. Not to say that there is no absolute right or wrong though (e.g. rape and murder are wrong in all circumstances).

[color=#2e1a6b](When I use the word "opinion", I'm not at all implying that it isn't supported by evidence)


[color=#2e1a6b]Everyone thinks their opinion is the correct one (note that opinions don't have to entail certainty. "X might be true" is still an opinion). We're actually being intellectually dishonest if we don't think our opinion is correct. This usually occurs after someone's been convinced that (s)he's wrong, but is too stubborn/prideful to admit it.

If someone holds an opinion that's mutually exclusive to our own, we will always "think" their opinion is wrong. If someone were to think that an opinion (that isn't mutually exclusive) was wrong just because it's different, then there's a legitiment issue there. But I rarely see that happen in SD; disagreements almost always occur from contradicting opinions



[color=#2e1a6b]I think these 2 things are somewhat related. Most opinions/viewpoints are based on other opinions/viewpoints, and create a sorta web of interconnected ideas. A discussion where users address the perspectives of other users should result in the discussion expanding beyond a specific topic. While I've certainly seen discussions get off-topic for bad reasons (usually because of insults or completely irrelevant assertions), most topics get off-topic because we address the perspective of other users.

For example, Biglundi made a thread about "why Ron Paul blows". I made a reply defending Ron Paul against Biglundi's accusations. As replies went back and forth, we started to discuss what our initial perspectives were based on. In the end, we were discussing government health care, public education, immigration, and a few other issues all at once; the main topic (Ron Paul) was lost entirely.


Sadly, you're kinda right about SD; it has had a lot of immature bickering and insulting. I admit to having some immature moments, but I've been doing my best to avoid that. I joined these forums when I was 16, and I there were some moments where it showed (I just turned 18 a few days ago). I don't really see that much immature bickering anymore, which is good. Unfortunately, I've seen way too many insults thrown out without the argument being addressed. Biglundi and I insult each other, but we do so after we've addressed the argument. Blank insults are probably the worst thing we can do in SD; all they cause is the bickering that you're so frustrated with.

lol wut

OT: It's pretty much been said, but because people. The example Daggerrise gave was a good one.

Clever boy.
Also, Lustful Angel is still an idiot.

[color=#2e1a6b]Whatever

I don't see how a good discussion can come from such insults.

Why is it that I cringe at that name?