prolife vs prochoice
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Kalistean wrote...
Yay, one of the topics that almost always lead to yelling arguments.Anyways, I am pro-responsibility.
Your choice is whether or not to have sex. You can choose whether or not to have it, but you damn well better be ready to take responsibility for it.
It's like driving. You choose whether or not you want to drive a car as long as you are ready for it. But you have to be willing to take responsibility if you fuck up.
In case of rape, I would suggest that they would be allowed to choose whether they want to or not as it was not their choice to engage in sex. Of course, I would also suggest that in these cases, therapy would need to be taken before they could make their decision.
i like intelligent conflicts, it make the pros and cons fight for a place of being wrong. it's my version of the debating team, with out preps
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
animefreak_usa wrote...
Kalistean wrote...
Yay, one of the topics that almost always lead to yelling arguments.Anyways, I am pro-responsibility.
Your choice is whether or not to have sex. You can choose whether or not to have it, but you damn well better be ready to take responsibility for it.
It's like driving. You choose whether or not you want to drive a car as long as you are ready for it. But you have to be willing to take responsibility if you fuck up.
In case of rape, I would suggest that they would be allowed to choose whether they want to or not as it was not their choice to engage in sex. Of course, I would also suggest that in these cases, therapy would need to be taken before they could make their decision.
i like intelligent conflicts, it make the pros and cons fight for a place of being wrong. it's my version of the debating team, with out preps
I like them too, but the internet is hardly a good source for them.
I mean if we really were going to do this right, we would need to be grabbing a bunch of valid sources to back our asses up as well.
But I suppose as long as no one really tries to overly be an asshole it shouldn't be too bad. Sadly the internet is with plenty of assholes.
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koko7 wrote...
Your killing someone.In nature, unwanted or handicapped offspring are ditched as quickly as possible, and we say that it's just bad luck for that offspring and chalk it up to 'survival of the fittest'. For pro-lifers, this same act is considered detestable when humans do it. Why is that? You're not really killing a conscious (self-aware) being. Hell, for the first few months of pregnancy, as Seri put it;
Seri wrote...
Babies are bloody tumoursI'll be god damned if all of a sudden people think that babies should get more rights when they are still in the womb than they'll get 5 or 10 years after they are born. It doesn't matter if having this child will ruin the mother's life (and in many cases, that would be the literal truth), you're expected to have that baby and raise it or else. Really, pro-lifers? You'll put the well being of a thing that doesn't even know of it's own existence over someone who is self-aware? What kind of bullshit is that?
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(Bear with me I just got up)
I think that there are so many factors to consider in this, I used to be pro-life, I figured if you were dumb enough to get pregnant then you should have to deal with it, no easy escape route. But recently my views have started to shift mainly because having a child seems to of become and escape route in its own right. Young single mothers in my country at least get so many handouts from the government its madness. And I'm sure a lot of them get pregnant on purpose for an easy life.
I think abortion should be on a case by case basis, its too delicate a subject to just be able to tick a box and say "Thats what I believe"
I think that there are so many factors to consider in this, I used to be pro-life, I figured if you were dumb enough to get pregnant then you should have to deal with it, no easy escape route. But recently my views have started to shift mainly because having a child seems to of become and escape route in its own right. Young single mothers in my country at least get so many handouts from the government its madness. And I'm sure a lot of them get pregnant on purpose for an easy life.
I think abortion should be on a case by case basis, its too delicate a subject to just be able to tick a box and say "Thats what I believe"
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Mr.Shaggnificent wrote...
Didn't some pro life loonies bomb one or more abortion clinic(s)? It's me I've beaten up the staff then we report those clinic to authority. I'm already beaten one of the rapist. and on the jail he face his terrible nightmare beaten to pulp.
wether you pregnant because rape or not. it's wrong to kill the baby. exept if birth will endangered the mother. but in that case our woman always choose the baby than her.
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Let me put it this way to those people who are screaming prolife will you take care of the child because the mother can't provide for him/her?
I believe a woman should have a choice to what she can and can't do with her body and that no religious people or politician should have any say in it. It's not their body or child if they're not going to take care of it then they should put a sock in it.
Though I do believe there should be a cut off point as to when you can't abort simply because the child has grown enough to be classified as human (no cells don't count) otherwise the woman can abort.
I believe a woman should have a choice to what she can and can't do with her body and that no religious people or politician should have any say in it. It's not their body or child if they're not going to take care of it then they should put a sock in it.
Though I do believe there should be a cut off point as to when you can't abort simply because the child has grown enough to be classified as human (no cells don't count) otherwise the woman can abort.
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spectre257 wrote...
Let me put it this way to those people who are screaming prolife will you take care of the child because the mother can't provide for him/her?yes indeed we do. I'm one of the activist.
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mesumguy wrote...
yes indeed we do.No you don't. All the hardcore pro-lifers do is cry murder if they don't get their way. And when they eventually do convince some $18,000 a year girl to keep the child, they say 'good for you' and then move on to the next abortion clinic and make any sensationalist claim they can to get it shut down. Absolutely no regard for the situation of the parent(s).
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mesumguy wrote...
spectre257 wrote...
Let me put it this way to those people who are screaming prolife will you take care of the child because the mother can't provide for him/her?yes indeed we do. I'm one of the activist.
Devil's advocate?
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Mr.Shaggnificent wrote...
Didn't some pro life loonies bomb one or more abortion clinic(s)? they blow something every day, either a clinics(which also do sex education classes and free std and birth control) or ol pastor for his wisdom of stuff he don't know about.
it sad that the majority of pro life people don't know that the clinics have other things they do, and just following the crowds of bible humping idol worshipers. and the people who lead them doesn't speak or even understand the will of god, none of us can. so let the person and god handle their problems when god judges them, it their problem.
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
Crazy people blow shit up. It's what they do.
That doesn't mean being prolife means you're crazy.
As for taking the kid. Actually there are plenty of people who are wanting to adopt. I think revamping the adoption process is something that also needs to be done so this sort of thing could happen more efficiently.
That doesn't mean being prolife means you're crazy.
As for taking the kid. Actually there are plenty of people who are wanting to adopt. I think revamping the adoption process is something that also needs to be done so this sort of thing could happen more efficiently.
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hmm...i don't really know if there is a right answer to this topic, but i just felt i needed to point something out.
it seems to me a lot of the prolifers talk about how if the mother makes a stupid decision, then she should be stuck with the consequences. but well, what about the father? the truth is when a woman gets pregnant, she is the only one that bears the entire burden of taking care of that child. she physically carries it, gives birth to it, and is automatically recognized as the sole caretaker as a matter of law. the father, may choose to be in the picture or may not. the law does not automatically recognize the father as a responsible party unless there is some form of legal proceeding acknowledging the father's status. yeah sucks for the woman who made the bad choice (though in some cases it was an accident because of a faulty condom or birth control), but she may very well end up taking the responsibility for two people and pay for it the rest of her life.
i'm not saying this disparity is a license to abort and i don't think women use it as a form of contraception because 1) it is painful, 2) humiliating, 3) frightening. (no personal experience here, but i think the majority of women view the prospect of an abortion this way). usually the women that tend to abort are young women who had their whole life ahead of them. at least the law right now recognizes a somewhat middle area, where the woman has a period of time before the fetus is legally viable, like a safe-harbor, which at least tries to balance out the rights of the woman and the rights of the fetus (though you might argue no such rights exist).
it seems to me a lot of the prolifers talk about how if the mother makes a stupid decision, then she should be stuck with the consequences. but well, what about the father? the truth is when a woman gets pregnant, she is the only one that bears the entire burden of taking care of that child. she physically carries it, gives birth to it, and is automatically recognized as the sole caretaker as a matter of law. the father, may choose to be in the picture or may not. the law does not automatically recognize the father as a responsible party unless there is some form of legal proceeding acknowledging the father's status. yeah sucks for the woman who made the bad choice (though in some cases it was an accident because of a faulty condom or birth control), but she may very well end up taking the responsibility for two people and pay for it the rest of her life.
i'm not saying this disparity is a license to abort and i don't think women use it as a form of contraception because 1) it is painful, 2) humiliating, 3) frightening. (no personal experience here, but i think the majority of women view the prospect of an abortion this way). usually the women that tend to abort are young women who had their whole life ahead of them. at least the law right now recognizes a somewhat middle area, where the woman has a period of time before the fetus is legally viable, like a safe-harbor, which at least tries to balance out the rights of the woman and the rights of the fetus (though you might argue no such rights exist).
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Fi wrote...
hmm...i don't really know if there is a right answer to this topic, but i just felt i needed to point something out. it seems to me a lot of the prolifers talk about how if the mother makes a stupid decision, then she should be stuck with the consequences. but well, what about the father? the truth is when a woman gets pregnant, she is the only one that bears the entire burden of taking care of that child. she physically carries it, gives birth to it, and is automatically recognized as the sole caretaker as a matter of law. the father, may choose to be in the picture or may not. the law does not automatically recognize the father as a responsible party unless there is some form of legal proceeding acknowledging the father's status. yeah sucks for the woman who made the bad choice (though in some cases it was an accident because of a faulty condom or birth control), but she may very well end up taking the responsibility for two people and pay for it the rest of her life.
i'm not saying this disparity is a license to abort and i don't think women use it as a form of contraception because 1) it is painful, 2) humiliating, 3) frightening. (no personal experience here, but i think the majority of women view the prospect of an abortion this way). usually the women that tend to abort are young women who had their whole life ahead of them. at least the law right now recognizes a somewhat middle area, where the woman has a period of time before the fetus is legally viable, like a safe-harbor, which at least tries to balance out the rights of the woman and the rights of the fetus (though you might argue no such rights exist).
finally a person who get it.
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I get kind of >:| about this topic.
I have no sympathy for women who get knocked up and then cry about how miserable they are and why is this happening to them. You spread your legs unprotected, you deal with the consequences.
However, while I may not condone the way you got to the "DO NOT WANT BABY" stage, it's also your choice how to deal with it.
If someone asked me, I would say I'm pro-choice. But I don't support either side. Like someone said before, I'm pro-responsibility. Pregnancy is preventable, so either don't be a stupid bitch or don't complain.
As for me, I'm not stupid enough to get pregnant unless I'm ready. End of story. But I will not keep rape baby. The miracle of pregnancy is also a choice, and that is a baby I can't live with.
>:|
Anger topic. When I see girls crying about how their life is over because they got (non-rape) pregnant, I want to abort them, instead of the child.
I have no sympathy for women who get knocked up and then cry about how miserable they are and why is this happening to them. You spread your legs unprotected, you deal with the consequences.
However, while I may not condone the way you got to the "DO NOT WANT BABY" stage, it's also your choice how to deal with it.
If someone asked me, I would say I'm pro-choice. But I don't support either side. Like someone said before, I'm pro-responsibility. Pregnancy is preventable, so either don't be a stupid bitch or don't complain.
As for me, I'm not stupid enough to get pregnant unless I'm ready. End of story. But I will not keep rape baby. The miracle of pregnancy is also a choice, and that is a baby I can't live with.
>:|
Anger topic. When I see girls crying about how their life is over because they got (non-rape) pregnant, I want to abort them, instead of the child.
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I'll guess I run with the pro-choice crowd here, or as the above poster: Pro-responsibility.
Having a kid is a huge responsibility, and one that some people aren't just ready for. And when they know it themselves; That they either can't provide for the baby or for some reason won't be able to fully care for it then abortion should be an accepted option. Especially if the woman have been impregnated through rape or her life can be in danger.
Still I believe that abortion should be a last call, used only if there really is no other way, if there is any way to make ends meet that should be the way. If that doesn't work adoption is always a good option seeing as there are a lot of couples looking to adopt.
While I believe that every life is sacred, and that we should try to cause as little harm to others as we possibly can I don't see a fetus as a life.
Having a kid is a huge responsibility, and one that some people aren't just ready for. And when they know it themselves; That they either can't provide for the baby or for some reason won't be able to fully care for it then abortion should be an accepted option. Especially if the woman have been impregnated through rape or her life can be in danger.
Still I believe that abortion should be a last call, used only if there really is no other way, if there is any way to make ends meet that should be the way. If that doesn't work adoption is always a good option seeing as there are a lot of couples looking to adopt.
While I believe that every life is sacred, and that we should try to cause as little harm to others as we possibly can I don't see a fetus as a life.
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
the two above posters do got a point but to the statement
As for me, I'm not stupid enough to get pregnant unless I'm ready.
you can be on the pill and wearing love glove and still get knock up, trust me i know.
and at the time i wasn't ready to be a father either. first six months were hard, no one needed photographers trying to provide for me and my wife(friend at the time) was hard enough but add a kid... but i'm responsible enough to at least try, my rant when to a different place, so back on topic.
it true that there should be a responsibility adjective to sex education now. wear a rubber, pull out and roll the dice to see
Circe wrote...
I get kind of >:| about this topic. You spread your legs unprotected, you deal with the consequences.As for me, I'm not stupid enough to get pregnant unless I'm ready.
you can be on the pill and wearing love glove and still get knock up, trust me i know.
and at the time i wasn't ready to be a father either. first six months were hard, no one needed photographers trying to provide for me and my wife(friend at the time) was hard enough but add a kid... but i'm responsible enough to at least try, my rant when to a different place, so back on topic.
it true that there should be a responsibility adjective to sex education now. wear a rubber, pull out and roll the dice to see
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
I don't get why people think condoms are super super effective.
They're not, they really aren't. I mean they're better than just going at it raw, but the statistics are lying to you.
I'm not saying the father shouldn't take responsibility either. His dumb ass is as responsible for knocking up the girl.
Of course figuring out a way to do so and not have it be overly abused it somewhat difficult.
They're not, they really aren't. I mean they're better than just going at it raw, but the statistics are lying to you.
I'm not saying the father shouldn't take responsibility either. His dumb ass is as responsible for knocking up the girl.
Of course figuring out a way to do so and not have it be overly abused it somewhat difficult.
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animefreak_usa wrote...
the two above posters do got a point but to the statement Circe wrote...
I get kind of >:| about this topic. You spread your legs unprotected, you deal with the consequences.As for me, I'm not stupid enough to get pregnant unless I'm ready.
you can be on the pill and wearing love glove and still get knock up, trust me i know.
and at the time i wasn't ready to be a father either. first six months were hard, no one needed photographers trying to provide for me and my wife(friend at the time) was hard enough but add a kid... but i'm responsible enough to at least try, my rant when to a different place, so back on topic.
it true that there should be a responsibility adjective to sex education now. wear a rubber, pull out and roll the dice to see
Circe wrote...
You spread your legs unprotected, you deal with the consequences.I realize that contraceptives aren't 100%. I'm not talking about people in your situation. Countless girlfriends have come to me crying that they are pregnant. The #1 answer when I asked them if they used protection? "No, but nothing's ever happened before."
This is about the part when I have to exit the room.