religion, oh god... gods!

Yes, they do. They're really obey the Religion Law.
The law in Malaysia is almost the same in Indonesia, just imprisonment and a fine. We don't chop hands off, because we still have tolerance for the criminals, and believe that they can change without coercion.

But the chop hands thing really work there, crime rate is low because of that. :roll:

Yeah, in several countries they do that. They'll cut off the hands of a thief. "Circumcise" females. Which basically equals to mutilation of their vagina and prevents them from ever enjoying sex. Punish women for being raped (which makes no sense, how is a weaker woman suppose to repel a obviously stronger male while you freaking out about getting raped). Stone gays and lesbians to death for being born with a particular sexual orientation.

I don't really like to oppose anyones Religion. But I think that we Roman Catholics have it Easy. Noones cuts their hand for stealing, no Stoning Gays and other brutal punishment. I really feel sorry for those other religions... no offense.

I'm Nichiren Buddhist.

Thats about it. People have their own religion and stuff and its cool.

*btw - Nichiren Buddhist philosophy is based on "Cause and Effect" If you do a bad deed, someday it'll get you in the back.*

Started out in Japan and now its in 180 something countries. I go to meetings and find very happy people. Very encouraging, having a happy successful life and trying to pass on their happiness to all other.

Oh yeah, basically..we believe in what Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi did.

i really, really respect that waar. its never been put in to such words that it actually connected to me why people believe in most religions. it isnt the figures you might believe in, or what the religion represents; its the morals and values that are truly important.

Ouch. never knew that.

Atheism- because god is for the weak.

Religion? This is an extremely easy topic.

Really, it is.

Follow me on this one.

The reason there is Catholicism, Methodism, Muslim, Paganism, Bhuddism, and hundreds of others religions and sects thereof (not kidding, look it up), are because not a single person has got it right.

If one person tells you that their God is the only God but another person tells you that it's not really a single God, it's three, or that it's got 6 appendages instead of 4, that kind of takes away from the exclusivity of your argument that your religion is the perfect one, doesn't it?

This is where arrogance comes in.

My dick (read: religion) is bigger and better than your dick. You, the religious one in the most benevolent sense, would normally walk away thinking "well my brother, I just think I see a truth that you do not see. In time maybe you will be enlightened."

Don't even get me started with being an atheist to devout Christians.

On top of believing that you, the atheist, are unenlightened and a poor wandering misguided soul of a being struggling to find your place in the world, they might even go so far as to assume you are a heathen or part of an anti-God cult.

Ignorance to anything past the distance from the heel to the toe.

Try to explain to them the difference between atheism and an actual religion and 99 out of 100 chances say they're going to completely ignore you and try to twist your words to make you out to be how they envision you to be.

Intolerance.

Prayer doesn't exactly work, either. It really makes no difference if it's in front of a statue of Jesus on the cross or a Nintendo Wii, neither one of them are going to give you perfect weather, ace your exam if you studied nil for it, or land you a good woman. The forces that be are not to be relegated to the pledge of allegiance, or in your case, prayer. It might make you feel good and as though you have some indirect control over things, but it's really nothing more than a sugarpill effect. Mind over matter.

Faith.

Logic is not a requisite, or you would not blindly trust (again, faith) your given lord and savior with everything. You are deeply saddened when worse comes to worse and to save face, and perhaps your own sanity, you try to justify the situation at hand as nothing short of your savior's plan. That's not just a waste of energy, it's insulting to the victims.

Purity.

Born again virgin? Uhm, right... anyway...

You, the religious, probably, well, actually, more than likely presume you are more morally aligned than your other religious and anti-religious counterparts. Well, there's just one, huge problem with that:

Relativism.

It's funny how the bible contradicts itself: thou shalt not kill.

"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers."

Conclusion: the right to peoples lives are then relegated to whom you decide is worthy of that wrath. This is especially prevalant when the subject is a sex offender, especially of children.

The moment we start labeling who has the right to live and die is the moment we as a society fall. This is why the law is the law, it is to protect those, innocent or otherwise, from fearing death at the hands of another through moral bias. It doesn't matter what your motives are, that's why inmates are still protected against other inmates (except when in the company of crooked/irresponsible police).

I think that wraps this up nicely.

Christianity used to be like that quite a bit... the only reason it isn't now is because of modern societal\cultural mores. All of the countries that practice Christianity as a main religion have developed to the point where a central government exists and limits church powers... thus preventing systematic church killings for "sins" and such. You don't see stonings, dismemberment, or other such religious punishments (both that you listed are primarily Islamic) anymore except for in Northern Africa and South Asia (for the most part).

Your (hypothetically) Muslim neighbor wouldn't suddenly cut off your hand (most likely, that is :lol:) if he sees you stealing from his home- the only time that generalities like those you employed can be used is if the country's legislature has been influenced/is their primary religion's internal laws.

As far as religion goes, I'm a complete atheist, non-spiritual, etc. I believe after we die nothing happens. We die. Yay. An interesting alternative I've been reading up on is that we're all living in a simulated reality. That'd be awesome.

On the god topic. Have not yet read the thread.

I was reading this article on Digg from the Telegraph that said that "Intelligent people are less likely to believe in God", and was reading the comments, when I saw this little gem:



I'm still laughing.

Edit: Allright, I've read it now, and I'll share my own beliefs.

I don't know, nor have, a formal name for my beliefs. At best, it's a sort of monotheism mixed in with Christianity, Paganism, Judaism, Sumerian, and a host of other beliefs.

As I've mentioned in other religion topics, I'm a bookworm Occultist. I follow major figures from there, and pledge my allegiance to no one but my self and my morality.

From my compulsive studies, By-the-book religions are fooling themselves. Gods generally have much more important matters to deal with then petty human squabbles. The reason that prayers are unanswered is because they are unheard.

No one cares. No one is listening to "Plz mommy/daddy plz gimmie teh lewtz!"

In order to receive and extredimensionary help, we must demand, summon, control, and deserve it.

A magician with a circle and a spell can control his fortunes. A priest with an altar and a voice can receive coincidence.

I've personally experienced the effects of occult magic. Little black magic, but lots of gray. It's nothing so fancy as conjuring slobbering demons or black fire. It's simply a little nudge in the right direction for your fortunes.

A nudge here, and you avoid stubbing your toe in the morning. Another nudge, the coffee will be delicious. Such miniscule events are caused by our own psyche daily. A spell will simply magnify it, over time, and give us a shove, instead of a nudge.

I've actually found money in the street. I've had something flash in the corner of my eye, stopping me as a car sped by centimeters in front of me. Found people I haven't seen in years. Odd things.

Wait...I think I got off topic there.

Err...right. TL;DR version: I believe that we create our own destiny as we exist.

The lack of crime in your country is probably because Muslims have a higher standard and moral fiber than the rest of us right? It has nothing to do with the consequences of said action normally ending up costing you an appendage...

To answer you question. Non believers like me go to the same place you do

the dirt.

For a religion that says illogical bullshit such as "There is no belief after disbelief" I've read that portion of the Quran before. It goes on to say in laymen terms. If you join Islam and leave you become an infidel. Thus you should be killed as punishment. Muslim countries trample the civil rights of their own people (even if you don't acknowledge them doesn't mean those right don't exist). Punish women for being raped instead of punishing the rapist. Enforcing women with stupid rules such as they have to be covered head to toe, can't go outside without a male escort (husband or relative), if they have sex outside of marriage they can be killed while the guy gets a slap on the wrist, their laws force women to have their clitoris removed.

You never hear of radical Christians threatening to wipe an entire country of people off the face of the map (Israel). You never hear about other religious followers blowing themselves up because of religious differences. I've never heard of other religious groups threatening to kill people over something as stupid as a cartoon (the Danish Mohammad depictions). Other religious text don't encourage people to throw away their lives with suicide bombings. Your clergymen and believers claim that Muslims reject the extremist and yet, I've never heard a "moderate Muslim" ever decry a suicide bombing EVER. The list just goes on and on and yet, Muslims claim their religion is one of "peace". I've seen your "peace" and that is one reason I'm an Atheist and will remain one forver. I'm not a fanatic and will never be a fanatic I need reason and evidence before I believe something. I'll never have faith because I see the world through my eyes with logic. Logic is the exact opposite of blind faith. I see people who run to a religion to give their lives meaning are too weak to understand the harsh truth about the world. "There is no deeper meaning to life & There is no life after death".

To quote Sora earlier




If you Christians, Muslims, Scientology believers, and etc can't sit and believe your faith alone without trying to force it on other people or kill them for not changing their faith. You guys go off and start you own über religious country where you can kill and convert each other for eternity . The rest of us like the Atheist, Buddhist, Hindu's, Taoist, Shintos, and the few Christians, Muslims, etc who can get along will live in peace where religious laws only restrict the ones who choose to let it restrict them. We'll progress and develop while you guys live in the dirt because your too busy blowing each other up to actually build anything important.

me, a muslim. i do believe, but i'm kinda against blindly believing. as for the laws, well, yeah, it's kinda extreme but actually if a muslim community truly practice what they're told to practice, the laws serve no whatsoever function anyway. plus, islam is more of a way of life than it to be some simple religion. there're actually deep discussions of gods and stuff, rather than simply "you believe or rot in hell" shit.

well, fiery penguin. guess i need to have a say. first, NO SUCH THING as punishing women for being raped. the rapist is the one punished. punishments for raped women only occured because of the lotsa arabians are sexists. it's like, their culture but that got nothing to do with islam.

next is the extreme suicide bombing, killing due to religious differences stuff. that is just some damn misunderstanding by some of the muslims(the extremists). there are teachings in islam that tell the muslim to fight to the bitter end should islam is in extreme danger, like, to be eliminated. it's like, a way to ensure the religion and its teachings prosper. but, those bombers take just about anything to be an extreme situation and goes bombing everywhere. in a way, they are quite the SHAME to we muslims.

and i assure you, islam do not teach to kill just because of religious differences. true, we are told to fight back, but not to initiate the fight. if islam is relly like that, the Constitution of Medina will never exist.

The sad thing is I hear the exact things all the time. The point is that a small (or whatever size) portion of your community are taking it to the extreme. Though I doubt that when I see quotes like this in your "Holy Book"

Koran-Sura 5:51 "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Koran-Sura 10:68 "They said, "Allah has begotten a son!" Be He glorified. He is the Most Rich. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. You have no proof to support such a blasphemy. Are you saying about Allah what you do not know? Say: Those who forge a lie against Allah shall not be successful.A little enjoyment in this world!- and then, to Us will be their return, then shall We make them taste the severest penalty for their blasphemies. "

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

Similarly, IV. 89: “They would have you disbelieve as they themselves have disbelieved, so that you may be all like alike. Do not befriend them until they have fled their homes for the cause of God. If they desert you seize them and put them to death wherever you find them. Look for neither friends nor helpers among them…” Baydawi (died c. 1315-16), in his celebrated commentary on the Koran, interprets this passage to mean: “Whosover turns back from his belief ( irtada ), openly or secretly, take him and kill him wheresoever ye find him, like any other infidel. Separate yourself from him altogether. Do not accept intercession in his regard”

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

Lemme remind you that the Koran says to kill Apostates. Since once you join Islam and leave you are an infidel and infidels need to be killed for their sins (couldn't find the quote otherwise I would have labeled it). With quotes like that in the Koran you wonder why we doubt your communities when they claim to be peaceful. If there are quotes that contradict these then that just makes your entire religion a hypocrisy.

No offense to you but, after what I've read and found I think both the Koran and the Bible are barbaric tools that were used to keep people in line and used to explain the things that our ancestors couldn't explain at the time since they had no idea of why or how things happened. Like I said no offense thats just how I feel and how I see it.