Stop the Internet "Blacklist" Legislation ('S.O.P.A.' bill)
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Tsurayu wrote...
trekki859 wrote...
so what you sayin? dont vote no? sometimes frenzied panic is a good. flood in enouge letters of dissaproval, and SOMEONE has to get the picture. then agian, this america. land of screwing people over for money.
No. I'm not entirely sure what I want to say.
I just don't like how so many people think that somehow sending a generic, unoriginal, letter to their congressional representatives makes them feel like they've accomplished something.
I mean think about it, would you, as a Congressman want to read a generic, computer written, message saying "I am writing as your constituent in the Blah-blah Congressional district of Name Your State [...]" It is like getting useless spam mail in your e-mail. If people can't at least personalize their messages, or heaven forbid do something more drastic like actually rally and protest, then those people really need to stop complaining when things don't go their way.
if you take a look at the link, you can personalize it, and i did. >.> look into what your discrediting before you say something you might regret.
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trekki859 wrote...
if you take a look at the link, you can personalize it, and i did. >.> look into what your discrediting before you say something you might regret. I won't regret saying anything. Of course you can personalize it if you go through that site. It would be stupid of them to allow only a generic, faceless, message.
That doesn't change the fact that most people won't be bothered to send anything more than a generic message. Most people aren't going to take more than thirty seconds out of their day to send something worth while.
In the end, it won't matter how many personal letters people send. Anyone who thinks that they or anyone else, no matter how many, will make a difference in the outcome of this situation is delusional. Like I already said, we're talking about Communications & Electronics. This is, and will always be, an internal lobbying affair.
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Tsurayu wrote...
trekki859 wrote...
if you take a look at the link, you can personalize it, and i did. >.> look into what your discrediting before you say something you might regret. I won't regret saying anything. Of course you can personalize it if you go through that site. It would be stupid of them to allow only a generic, faceless, message.
That doesn't change the fact that most people won't be bothered to send anything more than a generic message. Most people aren't going to take more than thirty seconds out of their day to send something worth while.
In the end, it won't matter how many personal letters people send. Anyone who thinks that they or anyone else, no matter how many, will make a difference in the outcome of this situation is delusional. Like I already said, we're talking about Communications & Electronics. This is, and will always be, an internal lobbying affair.
with that attiitute, im seriously surpised your even bothering posting. >.> think about it for a second. i knwo you will get it
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trekki859 wrote...
with that attiitute, im seriously surpised your even bothering posting. >.> think about it for a second. i knwo you will get it What? Just because I'm not one of the myriad of people who has signed useless petitions and send out multiple generic messages about this, I'm not entitled to an opinion? Or that it somehow means I support the bill?
I've done as much my share by keeping the information in the minds of my friends and other random people on the internet. Believe me, I'm going to accomplish just as much as everyone else who is sending out letters. As in we aren't accomplishing much.
I definitely don't support this bill. I'm a TwitchTV broadcaster. The last thing I want is for my video game streaming to suddenly become a felony offense. Plus I have to worry about dealing with the legal repercussions of emulation. But I'm also not going to waste my time on something that isn't going to help the issue, and isn't going to placate me.
I'll do what I think will help, which is pretty much limited to relaying information about this bill to other people as I said, but I'm not going to spend time in a panic and sending congressional letters every day.
I will say that I think I was a bit harsh in saying that people are wasting their time by doing anything about this. Certainly sending letters isn't going to hurt, but for the love of God at least personalize it. No one would read my letter if it were:
"I am writing as your constituent in the Second Congressional district of Indiana... blah blah blah."
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>.< as i dont want there to be bad feeelings here let me explain what it sounded like you were saying, in the wording you were useing before, that nothings gonna change even if we try and change it. that just dont sit well with me, i fight like hell anyway i can nomatter how useless if i belive in something. someone has to.
now, to see my POV on it, tell me. if everyone figured, well there not gonna listen whats the point of sending them a letter?
see what i mean now? yes, it is spam more or less. but its still a nessasaty for change more often then you think. every little thing helps. and if you can do something, do it.
now, to see my POV on it, tell me. if everyone figured, well there not gonna listen whats the point of sending them a letter?
see what i mean now? yes, it is spam more or less. but its still a nessasaty for change more often then you think. every little thing helps. and if you can do something, do it.
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trekki859 wrote...
i fight like hell anyway i can nomatter how useless if i belive in something. someone has to.And as a pragmatist, I find that kind of rampant idealism extremely annoying.
I'm not saying that sending letters is completely useless, but that most people don't seem to understand the gravity of the situation. This was never about what we as citizens want. This has always been about lobbying power, and our ability to influence this vote is so much less than people want to believe. We want to believe that we can sway government, when in reality it isn't really all sunshine and rainbows.
I'm not going to say that the lobbying groups who are not in support of this bill (specifically Google Inc. and Yahoo Inc.) aren't aided by the support of tens of thousands of voters who are speaking out against this bill, but I think the amount that it aids this fight is far less than people either see, or wish to admit.
Realistically speaking, the fate of this bill will not be decided based on the letters and petitions of voters.
I know that I am coming off very pessimistic about this, but it bothers me how many people are taking inconsequential steps when in reality, they are accomplishing next to nothing. Then again, I can't deny that it isn't as though they are hampering their efforts by trying, so in the end I'm only blowing smoke out of my ass.
Bleh, all that said. I'm stepping out of this conversation, at least for now, because I have to admit I'm losing my ability to keep up with this without getting hot-headed at what I am reading and it is coming out in my reactions.
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To be honest, fine: yes, the emails may not in and of themselves phase anyone. The fact that so many people ARE emailing/blogging/talking about the issue WILL.
It's about getting the word out so that those in power know people aren't happy, will take action if this comes to pass, and are lying in wait to act up. Something to that effect.
Sometimes just spreading awareness of the issue helps, and in this case (since the bill had so little media coverage), here's hoping it's working.
It's about getting the word out so that those in power know people aren't happy, will take action if this comes to pass, and are lying in wait to act up. Something to that effect.
Sometimes just spreading awareness of the issue helps, and in this case (since the bill had so little media coverage), here's hoping it's working.
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Actually, according to someone who works in a congress-critter's office, form letters DO work.
http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/me5e9/american_censorship_day_stand_up_for/c3075yk
It's basically the sheer volume of these sorts of letters that lets the representative know that this issue is important to their constituents.
http://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/me5e9/american_censorship_day_stand_up_for/c3075yk
Spoiler:
It's basically the sheer volume of these sorts of letters that lets the representative know that this issue is important to their constituents.
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Still... they rather get the copyright money then freedom. Like i said... until they feel the fire under their asses and there job on the line... they don't care.
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Tsurayu wrote...
This was never about what we as citizens want. and there is the root of the problem, I know were your comeing from, i know that this country is a rotting husk of what it should be i know that it probaly wont change, but untill i can get the hell outa here i gotta at least try no? dont get me wrong, still getting off before we go the way of the titanic.
Summary: I know what you mean, I understand that there's next to nothing that I as a individual can do, but ill be damned if Ill give up.
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Personally, I find this to be a desperate grab that likely won't happen. Mind, even as a Canadian, I'm well aware that I'm screwed if this does pass, but allow me to finish... Like I posted before on DeviantArt (which is also in a lot of danger if this bill does get passed), the civil unrest that this will stir up will likely scare congress out of their pants and make them backpedal like no tomorrow. Judging from the response I've seen so far, a lot of people are willing to take to the streets and riot if this happens, and I'll admit to being one of them if only to defend my fanfiction!
But in all seriousness... There are way too many loopholes in this bill to allow it to pass properly. Free speech being the main. Fanfiction and fanart are so widespread these days that almost every site associated with it would need to be taken down, and that would definitely spark an outcry of terrifying proportions... but also, it'd be fundamentally wrong to take down those sites. Fan-derived work falls squarely under free speech, (granted to an extent), and fans are scary creatures to piss off... If we fight amongst each other like crazed monkeys, what in the world would any sane being be able to do against a united front...?
So, I'll be laughing when this bill fails to pass, and I'll cry with mirth if it does because of the inevitable shitstorm it will cause. Anonymous will have a field day. Plus, it's impossible to stop pirating online. Simply impossible. You may as well try to just shut down the internet as a whole and see how it works.
But in all seriousness... There are way too many loopholes in this bill to allow it to pass properly. Free speech being the main. Fanfiction and fanart are so widespread these days that almost every site associated with it would need to be taken down, and that would definitely spark an outcry of terrifying proportions... but also, it'd be fundamentally wrong to take down those sites. Fan-derived work falls squarely under free speech, (granted to an extent), and fans are scary creatures to piss off... If we fight amongst each other like crazed monkeys, what in the world would any sane being be able to do against a united front...?
So, I'll be laughing when this bill fails to pass, and I'll cry with mirth if it does because of the inevitable shitstorm it will cause. Anonymous will have a field day. Plus, it's impossible to stop pirating online. Simply impossible. You may as well try to just shut down the internet as a whole and see how it works.
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with you on that one, and ill admit, i almost wish they make the fuckup of doing it, just to see everyone go apeshit. but i rather it not for 99 percent of the sties i use would probaly be dead for a few weeks because of this
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
trekki859 wrote...
with you on that one, and ill admit, i almost wish they make the fuckup of doing it, just to see everyone go apeshit. but i rather it not for 99 percent of the sties i use would probaly be dead for a few weeks because of this That not even true to the slightest bit. There counties where the same dns blocking and ip policing in place... but they still can get thru the great firewall with programs and proxing. Only those without the computer knowledge will be fucked.. which a 7 year old can do it... well you can do it.
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animefreak_usa wrote...
trekki859 wrote...
with you on that one, and ill admit, i almost wish they make the fuckup of doing it, just to see everyone go apeshit. but i rather it not for 99 percent of the sties i use would probaly be dead for a few weeks because of this That not even true to the slightest bit. There counties where the same dns blocking and ip policing in place... but they still can get thru the great firewall with programs and proxing. Only those without the computer knowledge will be fucked.. which a 7 year old can do it... well you can do it.
Sure you can get around it.
But the problem is the sites themselves (if they're hosted in the US or run from there) will be shut down entirely. There'd be nothing to access, even if you wanted to.
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exactly, im sure the good ones, ie pirate bay would be fine but way to many for my likeing are in danger.
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Why would they be shut down in the us... it only against the law to host it.... Most place only serve as a hub for the links.. not the content. Your servers and computers are the base for the info not the sites.
This is getting blowed out of order... like the great weeaboo panic over the tokyo manga ban. It already illegal to pirate stuff. Been like that since they discover patents. Plus if their no copyright holder in the states... then the content is free. Japanese anime streams and dl are legal until their a copyright holder in the us.. same with other counties.. only thing not legal are movies since they have the copyright worldwide... and music.
This is getting blowed out of order... like the great weeaboo panic over the tokyo manga ban. It already illegal to pirate stuff. Been like that since they discover patents. Plus if their no copyright holder in the states... then the content is free. Japanese anime streams and dl are legal until their a copyright holder in the us.. same with other counties.. only thing not legal are movies since they have the copyright worldwide... and music.
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animefreak_usa wrote...
Why would they be shut down in the us... it only against the law to host it.... Most place only serve as a hub for the links.. not the content. Your servers and computers are the base for the info not the sites.This is getting blowed out of order... like the great weeaboo panic over the tokyo manga ban. It already illegal to pirate stuff. Been like that since they discover patents. Plus if their no copyright holder in the states... then the content is free. Japanese anime streams and dl are legal until their a copyright holder in the us.. same with other counties.. only thing not legal are movies since they have the copyright worldwide... and music.
So since Funimation has rights to One Piece in the US but the UK does not does that mean I can view One Piece with out it being illegal if I were to download it or stream it.
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^
Actually, what Freaky said is not quite right. Downloading anime that is unlicensed in the west is still illegal, however, most non-international corporations won't enforce that law, because simply they don't loose anything from it since most of their products are unavailable for people outside of Japan otherwise (Things like media-regions and language borders). They do however gain something when a western corporation buys a license for their products, and that western corporation will enforce their legal rights because they do supply what the consumers want in a way that they easily access it.
To put it simply, the license holding corp in any country will enforce the copyright-laws on those that have access to their goods in a legal way, but the "original" corporation still has the legal backing to enfore the copyright-laws.
So to answer your question, yes, Funimation can't directly do anything to someone outside of the US, but whatever company Eiichiro Oda is signed to can(Since that would be a property-issue, and not a license issue). On the note of One Piece though I think that would fall under Funimation, since they in turn sub-license shit to Manga Entertainment, which is active in the UK.
Actually, what Freaky said is not quite right. Downloading anime that is unlicensed in the west is still illegal, however, most non-international corporations won't enforce that law, because simply they don't loose anything from it since most of their products are unavailable for people outside of Japan otherwise (Things like media-regions and language borders). They do however gain something when a western corporation buys a license for their products, and that western corporation will enforce their legal rights because they do supply what the consumers want in a way that they easily access it.
To put it simply, the license holding corp in any country will enforce the copyright-laws on those that have access to their goods in a legal way, but the "original" corporation still has the legal backing to enfore the copyright-laws.
So to answer your question, yes, Funimation can't directly do anything to someone outside of the US, but whatever company Eiichiro Oda is signed to can(Since that would be a property-issue, and not a license issue). On the note of One Piece though I think that would fall under Funimation, since they in turn sub-license shit to Manga Entertainment, which is active in the UK.
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Yeah what i meant was the japanese won't prosecute you nor will your counties because you didn't break any laws in your country. So you broke a law in japan but not in the us or anywhere the media isn't licensed under. So technically you broke no national copyrights laws... yet.
You realize that reading the digital form of the japanese manga is illegal but no one cares.. doujin and hentai... but it like advertisements for the circles for foreign readers to see shit and when they over there in japan.. they will buy the physical copy or other goods. Now the ero manga companies just do have the time nor money to fight in other counties.. unless you make a profit on the art.. and not the translations.
Hell shouldn't hollywood be mad with redbox and on demand more then a few lazy and broke people dl movies they made billions over.... a dollar for a move isn't that bad of a deal... it just the old stuff i dl.
You realize that reading the digital form of the japanese manga is illegal but no one cares.. doujin and hentai... but it like advertisements for the circles for foreign readers to see shit and when they over there in japan.. they will buy the physical copy or other goods. Now the ero manga companies just do have the time nor money to fight in other counties.. unless you make a profit on the art.. and not the translations.
Hell shouldn't hollywood be mad with redbox and on demand more then a few lazy and broke people dl movies they made billions over.... a dollar for a move isn't that bad of a deal... it just the old stuff i dl.