The True God

Umm correct me if im wrong but isnt being a part of an erotic site a deadly sin? Just because you ready the bible doesnt mean that god(if he exists) will forgive you if you keep on doing the sin! I dont believe god

But it helps...jeez you're stubborn. Just because you don't need something you think we're better off without it? We don't NEED technology, let me take away your computer, television, anything else you may use...I mean you don't NEED it, all you NEED to live is food, water, and MAYBE shelter. Who can provide that for you by the way if you're in need? Oh yeah, churches.



Lol, people who adamantly do not believe in god are more likely to be depressed. I know I was. I'm a Theist Agnostic, I believe that there IS something out there, we just don't know what. When I was a complete Atheist...I was depressed...same goes for other people I know. I have a Christian friend who was a shitload hapier than we were...did church activities, bake sales, went to church 3 times a week, he was a happy motherfucker...but obviously if he needed religion to do that he's not worthy of reproducing in your eyes.



See above you close minded prick. Not everyone is like you, and if you even DARE to say that anyone not like you isn't worthy of living I swear you're an even bigger idiot than I originally thought.

I do not believe in god and I am not depressed at all. Nor is any other atheist I know. Some people were more depressed when they believed in god and once they stopped believing they felt a lot better.

Also you seem to forget I am targeting religion more than the belief in a god. There are a lot of people who despise religion but still have a belief in a higher power. Those people usually don't let their belief in a higher power dictate anything they do.

Like I said religion is not needed. Something else can take the place of religion. In technology there are things it can do that nothing else can for us. Oh yah that water the churches is providing took technology to get it to them. Also it doesn't need to be a church to provide water it could be anything.

While they may be responsible for some of the great institutions of learning they also hindered what you learned from it. And a lot of religious officials in power have continually tried to hinder what people learn. Sure I admit Religion has done some good in the world but it also does much worse.

Religion itself is not bad because it is not a conscious thing. The people within the religion are what do the good or bad. Now if a person is doing bad/good they will most likely be doing bad/good things regardless if they were religious or not. But religion is a safe haven for those who want to do bad. We essentially have given religion a pedestal to lay on which is exempt from criticism. People try to use religion as a way to take away any responsibility for what they have done. And this is where you can get a good person to be driven to do bad things because of their religion. Religion or something similar to it (a dogma) is one of the only ways you can get good people to do bad things.

Religion can go both ways but we can go both ways without religion. So just chuck out the extra baggage. I don't even care if it goes both ways I actually care about if it is true. And no it's not true. I would rather live a life based on intellectual honesty and so do many other people.

Wait just a damn minute. So first of all, I guess if I consider myself atheist, I am going to be more depressed then someone who goes to church three times a week, and goes to bake sales?

Fuck that. I don't need a damn book to tell me how to be happy. I just am. I don't need an excuse to be a jolly person.

It just seems that most of this argument is about bullshit getting spewed. What does a church have to do with getting proper shelter? We as humans have this cool ability to build shit. We can make our own damn shelter if need be.

Last off, we're not the ones who say if we don't believe, we're going to hell for eternity to burn and whatever else. So if anything, it's religion that is saying those unlike ourselves deserve to die.

Alright, to you and the dudebelow you, I didn't say that not belieiving in god made you depressed, i said it makes you more likely to be depressed. God stop sayin I'm saying things that I'm not.



No but believing in a higher power is the main part of religion you idiot. Let
s take a look at its definition and I'll bold something for you.

A religion is a system of human thought which usually includes a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power, deity or deities, or ultimate truth.

So if you target religion, you target the belief in god.



The water it's providing, the food it's providing, the masonry needed to MNAKE the churches. Yes, these are all parts of technology...well if technology is so necessary and religioon is not, then why are we using technology tyo furthur religion? Oh I know the answert to that question already, it's because they work together to make life better for everyone.

You keep saying this stuff like it's either technology or religion, but you cannot have both. And every time you say religion is not NEEDED, you prove how much dumber you are. IF you think we should get rid of it because it's not needed then you must also agree to get rid of all technology you have and live in a forest somewhere. Because as I stated before, the only things you NEED as a person are food, water, and shelter.



That's pure opinion, it's done a shitload of good, and some bad, you cannot say for sure that it's dfone far more bad than good because yo have no numbers to prove that. And you say I don't research my arguments, here you are blindly stating a blatantly biased opinion like it's fact.



Aww...well technology's much the same. Is guess we should get rid of all our scientists for furthuring weapons research, creating the Atom Bomb, and all that crap huh? Don't tell me no unless you're willing to retract this statement, because I'm only using your logic.



Yay for you obviously knowing everything. Because somehow you KNOW religion isn't true in all it's forms. You think Buddhism isn't true? That the meaning of life should be to seek happiness? You think the Golden Rule isn't true? That we should do unto others as we wish to be done to ourselves? Yes, that was originated in the bible, don't even try to tell me it wasn't. The closest thing outside religion that came close to that was the Eye for an Eye mentality made by Hammurabi, and even then it was also in the Old Testament, which was made before his time, so it's possible he got it from that as well.

Your entire argument against religion is that we don't need it. Well guess what? We don't NEED technology either, I'll say it again, if that's your argument, forfeit all technology you currently have. Also, if you're gonna go ahead and say all religion is false, I'd like some sources, till then, kindly shut the fuck up.



I adressed this.



Provided we know how to build the shelter, and have the proper materials...unfortunately there's a shitload of people who don't have either...thank you church, for providing this for those people.



Actually it was him, for saying anyone who needs religion for anything deserves to be removed from the gene pool.

Know who else said something pretty damned similar? Hitler.

Religion isn't saying "Be like us or go to hell." it says, "Be a good person, or fuck you." Which I 100% agree with...be a good person, why the fuck not? Is it that hard to treat others well?

Lol Hitler was a Roman Catholic.

And where is your proof that atheists are more depressed? I see no proof.

For my proof of halting knowledge just look throughout history. Scientists were put to death or silenced for trying to utter anything that went against the bible. You also have the Library of Alexandria the ancient world's single greatest archive of knowledge. Alexandria which was part of a pagan temple was destroyed. You have the dark ages which halted progress of civilization by hundreds of years. If not for religion we could be hundreds of years further in advancement of technology.

We have the superstitious beliefs of demons, witches and other things which led to many people being accused then tortured and killed. You had the inquisitions. The Salem witch trials.

The Buddhist Burma human sacrifices which were still occurring even in 1856.

The Thuggee Murders Members of lndia’s Thuggee sect strangled people as sacrifices to appease the bloodthirsty goddess Kali, a practice beginning in the 1500s. The number of victims has been estimated to be as high as 2 million. Thugs were claiming about 20,000 lives a year in the 1800s until British rulers stamped them out.

The Mountain Meadows Massacre, a mass killing of the Fancher-Baker wagon train at Mountain Meadows in Utah Territory on September 11, 1857, by a group of Mormons and Paiute Indians.

The Inquisitions which you should already know about.

The witch hunts -When Puritans settled in Massachusetts in the 1600s, they created a religious police state where doctrinal deviation could lead to flogging, pillorying, hanging, cutting off ears, or boring through the tongue with a hot iron. Preaching Quaker beliefs was a capital offense. Four stubborn Quakers defied this law and were hanged. In the 1690s fear of witches seized the colony. Twenty alleged witches were killed and 150 others imprisoned.

The Roman Persecution of Christians

Aztec Human Sacrifices- About 20,000 people were killed yearly to appease gods — especially the sun god, who needed daily “nourishment” of blood.

The Islamic jihads (holy wars), mandated by the Koran, killed millions over 12 centuries.




Also no you don't have to be affiliated to any religion to believe in a god.

My mother is not affiliated to any religion at all she believes in a higher power though.

The church scenario is pointless because the church being there is pointless. You don't need to have a church to provide shelter.

And yes I know the great monotheistic religions are false. Any religion I have heard of is false. There has been no evidence to proof any of it. Also the claims made by the religions I know of have been proven false.

The belief in god is not the bad part although in my opinion it is not needed. The bad part is the dogma that comes from religion.

Science is not the same as religion because science is always criticized in order to further our understanding of the universe. Science does not make good people do bad things.

Also I needed technology to survive. I wouldn't be alive today if not for technology. I was born with heart problems and would have died if not for heart surgery.



And I ask again what can Religion do that something else cannot take the place of?

Alright, I apologize for not reading what was said correctly. But I'm going to have to disagree with part of what you said. At least in Christianity (I'm not going to address any other religion with this part here.) There are passages in the Bible that state, basically those who don't wish to be ruled over by God, should be killed. I'll clarify, pretty much all the Christians take their Bible to be absolute truth, and everything inside proper form. Let me pull a passage from that.

Luke 19:27 - But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Don't get me wrong, I think your description "be nice or fuck off" really is a pretty good idea. But that passage just iterates what I said. Be like us, or go to hell. How can I take a religion seriously, that is supposed to just toss aside people who don't agree with the views in the Bible?

[quote="Ironytaken"]



So obviously religion had nothing to do with it, since you, someone who has no religion, said the same thing as someone who did...huh.



I see no proof for just about anything you say, that doesn't stop you now does it?



That wasn't ignorance of religion that bred the Library of Alexandria, that was one rleigion hating the fact that another religion was leading people to become smarter than them. It was still a part of a pagan place, the pagans just learned that having religion and knoweldge is better than just having one. Something you should learn from. Also, you REALLY need to stop referring to all religion as...just whatever the bible says. I use the bible as an example, you use it as if it's the only religious text in existence.



If you recall, it was true faith in god that led people to realize they were being stupid. John Proctor was a man who was known to be a god fearing very good man, so when HE was accused, people knew something was up...he even utteredthe Lord's Prayer as he was executed, making him one of the LAST people executed in the United States. The Inquisition was a bunch of religious people being angry at other religious people for not being in the same religion, you can't blame religion, you blame the people.



I stopped detering them individually when I saw how many you had. I'm gonna go ahead and just sum up the fact that you're full of shit with the following:

If you are going to tell me death toll=evil, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you that technology trumps religion in this regard. Sorry, but it's true. Obviously by your logic, technology is worse than religion.



I believe you mean "Church Organization" not religion. f you DO mean religion...well your mother is a Theist Agnostic...like me...a religion...congrats.



Again with need, stop saying you don't NEED things before I take away whatever is keeping your heart going.



As you delve deeper into proving how bias you are, I can only lol.

You say they can't prove they're real...I'll give you that. But unfortunately, since you cannot prove they are false, you can't KNOW they're false...stop being so stupid.

Here's a brain teaser.

I can't prove to you for a fact that thought is real. I guess that means thought's false.



Doctor Mengela. End.



Lol, you can't survive without technology? Remove yourself from the gene pool please. Nature sure wishes you would apparently.



I dunno...how about provide hope to those that DO want to think there's a friggen life after death?

God you're an idiot.

My only point was that religion is a good thing, and you cannot prove that it's not...there's not ONE BAD THING religion has done that technology hasn't fully trumped, bent over, and raped anally.

In fact, RELIGION as a practice has never done anything wrong...people who are RELIGIOUS have done bad things...but religion never did any of that.

You don't need to have a question about what happens after death. Also it is a made up answer called god of the gaps.

I am perfectly happy knowing that once I die that is it. That your body goes back into the earth. We are essentially the stuff of stars. We are made up of all the same building blocks as everything else in the universe. We are a way for the universe to know it exists, as Carl Sagan said. That is what can take the place of religion of life after death. Knowing that you are the work of over 15 billion years of cosmic evolution and that you have the privilege of contemplating the universe. Living forever would take away the value of life in the first place.

Also the way you use fact is not the generally excepted term. A fact is usually meant to define something that is a verifiable observation. Religion doesn't have that. Also the burden of proof does not rely on me but to those trying to pass claims off of god's existence. If they want me to believe their claims then they must prove them. Everyone is born an atheist. Atheism is the default position. So if someone cannot prove the claim that god exists then staying at the default position is what happens until evidence is provided. Unfortunately indoctrination from religion usually starts with young kids who are not fully aware of the world around them.

The Doctor You mentioned did not do those things because of technology. Technology has no dogma it does not tell anyone to do anything. Just like if there was an atheist bible it would be blank.

And no that church never needed to be the shelter for the people. It could of been just some random person with a building and empathy for people in need. That church could have been a place where they take and torture people just as easily as it could have been a place where it provided food and shelter. The church nor the religion is needed for people to do good things.

Also Nature doesn't wish anything of me since it's not a conscious thing. There is a high chance that the human species might have died off if not for technology. Either that or we would have evolved differently to adapt to the environment. Even the humans 40,000 years ago used technology although it was simplistic.

Also believing in a higher power does not mean you are exactly religious. That higher power could of been the singularity that the universe used to be. Higher power can mean a lot of things. Theism refers to a particular doctrine concerning the nature of God and his relationship to the universe. So what if you are missing that doctrine part?

Also the examples I used of what religion beliefs caused was to show what it can do. It is because of the dogma that these things happened. You can say technology did worst but technology is not a dogma it does not tell people what to do.

I live in America where I myself cannot run in public office because of not believing in god. I can be chased out of town by the community because I am atheist. Atheists are the least trusted minority in America mainly due to religious bigotry and ignorance. I live in a place where gays and lesbians cannot have equal rights because of religious views. Where women are struggling for rights for abortion because of religious ignorance.

I live in a land where people have the right to vote on issues. These people determine the outcome of many things. But what is so destructive is the belief structure of these people. They throw away any education that contradicts their views and that causes them to act irrationally. If people can be religious and intellectuals at the same time then I wouldn't mind at all. There are some scientists who are religious that I admire. It's not religion that helps them with their discoveries but it surely didn't hinder them. Yet I find that the highly educated people who are religious usually have religion which is very loose around them. If more people could be like that then I might not hold a grudge towards religion. Sadly a majority of religious people are not like that. Hopefully as this newer generation ages they become more concerned with truth rather than silly superstitions that make them feel good.

I do hope eventually people realize their superstitious nonsense is holding back civilization.

And don't be trying to paint me out to be the bad guy since you already admitted to having no problem killing if there was no law.

So I suppose people who AREN'T satisfied that they simply cease to be alive and nothing else are just silly? Also stop saing that god doesn't exist like it's a fact. You don't believe, fine, but you can't prove it anymore than I can prove he does. I can always ask a question that you cannot answer.

So...essentially, you're saying since YOU'RE fine with the idea that you simply cease to be alive, and that there is nothing after death, everyone else should be too...god you're dense.



Oh yeah, before we go any furthur I'd like to point out that Atheism is a religion. Just putting that out there.

Indoctrination...lol...I went to church since I was 3, I'm still a Theist Agnostic. Obviously they're not trying too hard to 'indoctrinate'. A FACT, by the way, is an inarguable verifiable position that cannot be proven wrong...because if it CAN be proven wrong, it's not a fact. The burden of proving isn't on ANYONE. not you, not anyone who's religious. You ARE aware that the example you used can be reveresed right? That a religious person can say it's YOU who is trying to convince THEM of YOUR beliefs...so in THAT case, yes, you have to provide proof. Here's something you might wanna wrap your head around. You said that you know for a FACT that monotheistic religion is wrong, in yet you cannot prove it...so...you're full of shit. Thanks.



Lol, he explicitly mentioned he did all that stuff AND I QUOTE "In the name of science" If he doesn't count, then NONE of your examples count. Religion never explicity states, "Kill everyone who disagrees with me." so...you can't say that. Also, remember something, the bible, isn't religion, it's a device USED by a CHURCH. There's a big ol differnce.



Could have been...real good wording...in yet it isn't. It provided food and shelter, don't say it doesn't count because it COULD be used for bad things. ANYTHING can be used for bad things...PENCILS COULD be used to stab people, does that make them bad? No. The fact is that the person's religion inspired him to help people doesn't count? Is that it? God you're thick.



And they also worshipped things. You're missing the point. You said anyone who NEEDS religion needs to remove themselves form the gene pool,. because YOU don't need technology, so why should they? Well. I DONT need any technology to stay alive...you do...so by that logic, yes, you should remove yourself from the gene pool. All IM doing is pointing out how full of shit any of your arguments are...and succeeding.



Yes it does.



IT doesn't have to be god to be a religion. If you would recall earlier when I posted the definition of religion, it includes a higher power, deity or ULTIMATE IDEA. So...yeah...



Religion itself doesn't tell people what to do either...religious PEOPLE tell other people what to do...just like how other scientists tell other scientists what to do and research...and how you have to be backed by a govenrment to et any funding for any research...and how most research must serve a particular partie's interest in order for said funding to occur. You can spout the word Dogma all you want, the fact is Technology has done equally, if not worse things than religion itself. So shut the fuck up.



Point out in the constitution where it says, "In order to run for office, you must be 35 years of age, born in the United States...and believe in god."



Lol, abortion is legal, and the only problem with gaymarriage isn't the RELIGIOUS part, that's the popular issue, but it's not the problempeople have with it...we don't give two shits if two gay people wanna bet together, we care if they just wanna get married for marriage benefits. Look I'm all for gay marriage myself, so don't get all high and mighty like you're a victim or anything. Cause you're not. Oh yeah, and Atheists? Yeah I dunno if you know this, but they can be just as big assholes as the people you claim will 'run you out of town'. I can't tell you how many times Atheists run around going, "IS THAT A GODDAMNED CHRISTMAS TREE?! TAKE IT DOWN NOW!" and you know what? They get their wish. Oh yeah, and that's just ONE thing atheists do, I can name other examples if you want me to. You're not a victim because of your 'rebellious thoughts on god' or whatever message you're spewing, get over it. Everyone gets mocked and hated for something, it has little to do with your religious views...I garauntee if you weren't an atheist, peoplewould hate you for something else...white cracka devil.




Act irrationally? Yes. Contradicts views? No. Evolution is taught motherfucker. Despite how many religious groups wish it wasn't. Wah, not everyone is an atheist and thinks like you, that makes their beleif structure stupid...I hate you all the more.



You mean like...well..the majority of them are?



Nope, in fact, it probably motivated them. THANKS RELIGION!



Lol, you don't pay attention do you? The majority of people who are religious ARE intelligent AND religious, they just don't go around being assholes and getting recognized in the media for their views...you think the mdia gives a shit baout a religious person who's also a good person? No! They look for people who are religiously and intellectually ignorant because that gets viewers...I garauntee you at MOST 20% of religious people are intellectually retarded and ignorant bastards. The rest? Are perfectly fine...like my parents...the rest of my religious methodist family...and basically my entire town.



Because only when we all think like you will we progress as a civilization...lol.

Ok I think you are full of shit and narrow minded and you think the same of me I don't see that argument going any further.

But I will say that atheism is not a religion. Atheism has no doctrine. If not believing in god is a religion then not believing in flying pink dragons is a religion. Not collecting stamps is a hobby. Not playing football is a sport.

Lol, Atheism is a religion.

If you would recall, yet agian, the definition of religion, it includes the UTLIMATE IDEA, if your ULTIMATE IDEA is that you don't believe in god, congrats, that's your religion. Those other examples are retarded. A sport is an ACTIVE game which requires physical effort, NOT playing football doesn't match that definition at all. A hobby is something done for fun that serves no purpose other than personal enjoyment, if it makes you HAPPY to not collect stamps I GUESS you could consider that a hobby, but it doesn't match the definiton to neglect to do something...

I matched it to the definition, wah if you don't like the fact that you follow something you despise so much.

I'm not close minded you arrogant prick, you're the one sitting there saying, "There is no god, this is fact." and also, "Religion is not needed, thereofre it should not be." And also, "Until people start realizing there is no god, we'll never advance as a civilization." These are close minded ideals yo uhave expressed asshole. The reason this argument won't go furhtur is because you can't rightly argue against the idea that religion is right.

This last post I ALMOST got you to admit religion is a good thing by admitting that scientists with religion are admirable, but then you went right back into, "Until people stop believing, we'll never advance."

I'd like you to explain how I'm close minded, when ALL I've been doing is applying your half assed logic to what YOU consider good and proving how it doesn't work.

Atheism is NOT a religion. It lacks the very characteristics that are used to describe a religion or a spiritual system. There is no doctrine, no "church" or any of the others. Atheism doesn't even fall into one of the definitions set by the Webster dictionary. If you wish to debate this idea further i suggest you either necro an existing thread or create a new thread in regards to the topic. From there, I and others will be glad to challenge your assertion.



This is a blatant lie and as an American you should read the constitution a little more.

Article 2 Section 1 of the U.S. constitution says and I quote



Article 1 section 3


In closing: BigLundi attack the post/idea not the person. Calling ironytaken an idiot only discredits yourself and your argument. Next time, don't degrade the debate into petty personal attacks. If ironytaken also insulted you (I do not know as I didn't bother to read all of his posts) then the same applies to him.

As for the rest of the thread I won't bother commenting as I only felt the need to correct those two incorrect statements.

Ahem.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45874

According to law. It is a religion.

As for the reason why I insulted him? Because of his blatant lies that he perpetually states, as you just said in your post.

Someone who is quite obviously making things up to prove his point deserves to be called names.

You are confusing Legal definition for actual definition.

Within the legal community a "religion" is anything that coincides with a set of beliefs. If you wish to use this legal definition then you would have to claim that science itself is a religion especially in regards to areas like "the big bang" and other theories to the creation of the universe (including evolution).

As I said before, if you wish to debate this subject any further then I suggest you create a thread for discussion. Unless you do so, I will not reply which will result in you wasting your time attempting to refute my arguments in this thread.

Lol, I did before you posted that response penguin :P.

Please quote your sources. That is silly nonsense. There is christian in-fighting and there were the crusades but these were usually always for secular reasons masked behind religious ones. Christianity and juadism were not spread by the sword, even when spread aggressively or overbearing such as it's spread to native americans.

The other poster already summed up why atheism is not a religion.

Also you mistook everything I said.

I am attacking the superstitious parts of religion. That is why I said I can still admire people who are religious because being religious doesn't necessarily explain what you believe. I never said there was no god. I said there is no evidence for god so therefore my position is at default which is atheism. Until that religion is proven atheism is the position that is taken. That is what a skeptic would do. He wouldn't accept something until evidence is shown. It takes no faith to be an atheist as you are born one. I mainly said that so far the gods of the religions I have known about are false because of the claims they make have been disproved. The claims that are impossible to test are ignored until evidence is shown. And yes the part of religion that holds dogmatic beliefs that are unquestioned and accepted are the part that hold back civilization. It has in the past.

There is a reason why I use religion and it's because it takes too long to lists all of the ones I despise. There are over 10,000 religious denominations and I do not have time to list all the ones I want. You may thing I am attacking every single religion but it's certain parts of dogma. Like the part that made you think it's ok to kill without a law telling you not to.

If you really want to see if your version religion is on the list that I despise all you need to do is tell me your beliefs.


George Carlin says it best.

I belong to the christian faith, but I don't practice it so much anymore due to my own concept of what god is. I don't think god is a being at all. If anything, god is a force that is made up of everything in existence, just as all the cells in our body make up who we are.

So are you trying to define the universe as god?

I mean it's and unneeded definition since we have one but better than many of the other definitions I hear.

I would just call it the universe not god.