Adder wrote...
First off, I am going to say that any reference to special pleading or straw men are, in themselves, straw men. Based off of the definition that a straw man is something irrelevant that makes it seem one has won an argument, mentioning it in an argument is itself a straw man.
Haha, did you even read the examples of a strawman fallacy? Here, I'll fetch them for you:
1. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.
2. Quoting an opponent's words out of context — i.e. choosing quotations which are intentionally misrepresentative of the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).
3. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments - thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.
4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
5. Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
And guess what, you're guilty of 1 and 5. Also, pointing out your logical fallacies is completely relevant to the discussion. Are you shitting me? Pointing out flaws in the opponent's logic, irrelevant? Niggah, please.
Adder wrote...
Based off of step one I know I exist, but also based off of the argument, I know that I am doubting everything I see. In other words, the vat, the liquid, even the brain...It could all be a lie.
Lol, then how do you exist? What's even more hilarious is that dismissing the vat as just a lie would contradict the stupid esse argument which says, and I quote:
Stupid esse argument wrote...
Suppose for a moment that you are not really a human being with an actual body. In reality, you are nothing more than a brain floating in a vat of fluids, with electrodes attached to various parts of your exterior that allow evil scientists to manipulate you into thinking that what you perceive is actually there, when in fact it is nothing more than an imaginary world constructed by the scientists.
Adder wrote...
If I doubt the existence of others, and they die, why should I believe in the condition of death?
Because you exist and you're not infinite.
Adder wrote...
If I am existing, and have been existing since the start of whenever it was that I started existing- what is there to make me believe that this existence will end?
Nor do you have any proof that your existence will not end. Dude, the argument only works with propositions that are conclusive. Not 50%, not 99%, but 100%.
Adder wrote...
After all- the only things that can be proved to exist in this stage are self and esse.
Even if I grant you that inconclusive proposition that you can't not exist, then that still leaves the problem of that stupid esse being treated differently from the other entity. Teh argument is null!
Stupid fucking writing wrote...
entropy
I got one question for these assholes: How the fuck do you know that the universe is a CLOSED SYSTEM!?
BigLundi wrote...
Serial killers would run amok killing whoever whenever and tell EVERYONE they did it...and who's gonna say he can't? Without religion we can't TELL him, "You can't do that." We can't shake our fingers at anyone and say, "You're being a bad person." because without religion there's no such thing as bad people.
Lol, he thinks that we need religion to know that murder is not really a good thing (especially to a society, and the world is filled with them). Seriously bro, you don't think that without religion, people would say, "We can't have murder because that would be detrimental to society, therefore we must outlaw it."
teoretikern wrote...
well how do we decide wich one who won then?
If you're intelligent enough to follow the argument and understand the points put forth by the debaters, then you should be smart enough to know which one has the better argument. Whoever you side with, after evaluating their arguments, is in your opinion, the winner.