Which is better, believing in a god or not?
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Chlor wrote...
NeoStriker wrote...
Tired...So to you, "different" exists outside of the concepts of "right" and "wrong"?
Why you gotta call a brudda by his last name? Well, really, I just feel uncomfortable when people refer to me by "Striker". If anything, you can call me MC Berry Lime, a flavor you can taste all the time.
Being able to tell the difference between "can't be proven" and "yet to be proven". Until "God" can be proven, he does not exist.
Ehhh, I disagree with your neutral state.
If I took it out of context, then I must've read it wrong. Sorry.
Yes, I'd say that "different" is a concept completely unrelated to "right" and "wrong", mostly since "different" is not a based on morals, different is simply relative.
Yeah, I actually wrote Neo first, but I watched the Matrix the other day and suddenly I couldn't get the voice of Laurence Fishburne out of my mind, so it felt better to just call you Striker.
That there are dimensions past the 3 we live in is something equally impossible to prove as the existence of God, since they can not be perceived with the human mind. Until God has be disproved, the possibility of his existence can't be disregarded.
I don't understand how you can't. Your claim is not neutral.
All things exist under the concepts of "right" and "wrong". The only hard part about it is defining the line. If you think otherwise, then to be frank, I can't help but think you're an idiot.
Being unable to be perceived by the human mind is the same thing as saying "doesn't exist".
Also, you were supposed to have read the rebuttal to The Jesus as well.
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Though I was born and raised Roman Catholic, I started questioning my religion a few years back. When no one could answer my questions without side-stepping the topic, I decided that I should consider others. But from there, I realized how many in history have used religion as a way to justify their actions. Long story short, I don't believe in a god anymore and, though the thought of an omniscient being that grants happiness to its followers is a pleasant one and can ease passing, people might be better off to follow suit. But, hey, people can/will do as they please.
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goodshit11 wrote...
If you not bievin in da man wit da bierd u will be dammed wit a bunch a burnin niggas, I has killed to much to bievin in a white man in da sky.As much as I disagree and disgusted by your language use >.> I do agree with not believing in this all powerful god who supposedly is watching us and that everything we do has a meaning and a plan.... And most of all I do not believe that an ethereal being is a father to all of us, it's just not believable.
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In my opinion, it's just the matter of personality and thinking. If you believe that there is a being that controls all life, events, and the future, and that being will guide you into salvation, then in a spiritual sense, it's "good." However, there are many views of being good. Eating cuisine that's "good," "good" times with friends, "good" actions to take, "good" thinking.
In Christianity, the only good is to have a "good" soul, one soul that is obedient to the Holy's words and stories and prophecies.
In a worldly sense, there are plenty of "good" things you can take, one that you believe is right, and one that you believe in the most. Although this sends out a mass of varieties, there will be some that is "evil" to the society or to Christianity. This grants the true liberty and freedom, that is "good" to themselves.
There is no better choice into being a Christian or an Atheist or whatever religion you wish to take. It's just how you think about your life and your surroundings.
In Christianity, the only good is to have a "good" soul, one soul that is obedient to the Holy's words and stories and prophecies.
In a worldly sense, there are plenty of "good" things you can take, one that you believe is right, and one that you believe in the most. Although this sends out a mass of varieties, there will be some that is "evil" to the society or to Christianity. This grants the true liberty and freedom, that is "good" to themselves.
There is no better choice into being a Christian or an Atheist or whatever religion you wish to take. It's just how you think about your life and your surroundings.
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The idea of me telling you what to believe or how to believe it is, to me, absolutely asinine and absurd. We all have our personal beliefs, even tainted as they are by the lecherous tendrils of the world's organized religions...see, they used to tell us a cute little thing, as kids. They used to say:
"People are like snowflakes, no two are alike, tee hee hee! Now eat your fucking meat, shithead."
Well, perhaps I just scream that last part at the mirror while jerking and punching myself in the face simultaneously, but you get the idea. Anyway, I really took that to heart, and it's shaped my view of humanity as a whole. We are individuals, each and every one with a private universe within their own skull, a whole...thing of fears, fantasies, of dreams and hopes and anxieties...we all have our own ideas of morality and existence, no matter how closely aligned they are to some uniform definition, they are at the same time, leagues apart.
Now, you're questioning what you've been taught. What I personally think? I think that is beautiful, and you should keep doing it...and what's even better, is you have the internet. You can research anything you want, right then and there...so, what I suggest? Keep learning. And always question what you just learned. And every teacher, every debater, anyone speaking, I suggest you think of them as a wise man and a lying fool, all at the same time. Does these labels contradict each other? Yes, but don't worry about that. Don't worry about it because man is a contradiction. We are at once good and evil, we are at once masculine and feminine, at once generous and selfish, even if some have some scales tipped a little in a particular favor.
To start with, if you want, you could start researching one of the greatest atheists and hypocritical perverts I've ever had the pleasure of reading, Marquis de Sade.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Sade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Sade
I certainly hope my disorganized ramblings did some good. Godspeed, soldier. (See what I did, there?)
"People are like snowflakes, no two are alike, tee hee hee! Now eat your fucking meat, shithead."
Well, perhaps I just scream that last part at the mirror while jerking and punching myself in the face simultaneously, but you get the idea. Anyway, I really took that to heart, and it's shaped my view of humanity as a whole. We are individuals, each and every one with a private universe within their own skull, a whole...thing of fears, fantasies, of dreams and hopes and anxieties...we all have our own ideas of morality and existence, no matter how closely aligned they are to some uniform definition, they are at the same time, leagues apart.
Now, you're questioning what you've been taught. What I personally think? I think that is beautiful, and you should keep doing it...and what's even better, is you have the internet. You can research anything you want, right then and there...so, what I suggest? Keep learning. And always question what you just learned. And every teacher, every debater, anyone speaking, I suggest you think of them as a wise man and a lying fool, all at the same time. Does these labels contradict each other? Yes, but don't worry about that. Don't worry about it because man is a contradiction. We are at once good and evil, we are at once masculine and feminine, at once generous and selfish, even if some have some scales tipped a little in a particular favor.
To start with, if you want, you could start researching one of the greatest atheists and hypocritical perverts I've ever had the pleasure of reading, Marquis de Sade.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Sade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Sade
I certainly hope my disorganized ramblings did some good. Godspeed, soldier. (See what I did, there?)
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NeoStriker wrote...
All things exist under the concepts of "right" and "wrong". The only hard part about it is defining the line. If you think otherwise, then to be frank, I can't help but think you're an idiot.Being unable to be perceived by the human mind is the same thing as saying "doesn't exist".
Also, you were supposed to have read the rebuttal to The Jesus as well.
Proved facts which have some kind of ultimate truth are the only thing that falls within the concept of "right" and "wrong", nothing else. Things such as morals, beliefs or opinions can't be "right" or "wrong", because they are based on our own interpretation of what we experience, they are all in your head, and every conscious being will interpret these things differently.
If you believe that the human psyche is able to perceive everything in the universe then you're an ignorant fool, the mind is not limitless.
I did, and to be completely honest I don't really see your point. I could equally easy say "God influences all of that." and have just as little proof as you have to back that claim up.
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Chlor wrote...
NeoStriker wrote...
All things exist under the concepts of "right" and "wrong". The only hard part about it is defining the line. If you think otherwise, then to be frank, I can't help but think you're an idiot.Being unable to be perceived by the human mind is the same thing as saying "doesn't exist".
Also, you were supposed to have read the rebuttal to The Jesus as well.
Proved facts which have some kind of ultimate truth are the only thing that falls within the concept of "right" and "wrong", nothing else. Things such as morals, beliefs or opinions can't be "right" or "wrong", because they are based on our own interpretation of what we experience, they are all in your head, and every conscious being will interpret these things differently.
If you believe that the human psyche is able to perceive everything in the universe then you're an ignorant fool, the mind is not limitless.
I did, and to be completely honest I don't really see your point. I could equally easy say "God influences all of that." and have just as little proof as you have to back that claim up.
Can you "interpret" the Sun as black?
If perceiving everything in the entire universe is impossible, then what's the point to living? Life would get far too dull.
"If the human mind was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it" - Emerson Pugh
So you're saying "God" gives birth to children from his womb? He's the one who harvests the crops with his hand? For all we know, "God" certainly has no direct part in the affairs of humans, and any claim such as "God influences all of that" would need further evidence to support that claim.
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NeoStriker wrote...
Can you "interpret" the Sun as black?If perceiving everything in the entire universe is impossible, then what's the point to living? Life would get far too dull.
"If the human mind was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it" - Emerson Pugh
So you're saying "God" gives birth to children from his womb? He's the one who harvests the crops with his hand? For all we know, "God" certainly has no direct part in the affairs of humans, and any claim such as "God influences all of that" would need further evidence to support that claim.
You really do see everything in black and white, don't you?
Do people experience sunlight differently? Most likely. Does different people's skin react differently to the exposure of sunlight? Yes, it does. Does some people like the touch of wind on their face, while others do not? Yes, so it would seem. Even at this basic level, people will interpret things in different ways.
Would it really? Or would we just have to come up with some way to explain it in a way we CAN understand?
Why not? "God shined with his mercy upon his crops, and so he was able to harvest. God blessed him with offspring. yadayada" It's as good an explanation as yours. You're just trying to take an easy way out because you can't bring yourself to admit that you don't have proof to back up your claim.
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Chlor wrote...
NeoStriker wrote...
Can you "interpret" the Sun as black?If perceiving everything in the entire universe is impossible, then what's the point to living? Life would get far too dull.
"If the human mind was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it" - Emerson Pugh
So you're saying "God" gives birth to children from his womb? He's the one who harvests the crops with his hand? For all we know, "God" certainly has no direct part in the affairs of humans, and any claim such as "God influences all of that" would need further evidence to support that claim.
You really do see everything in black and white, don't you?
Do people experience sunlight differently? Most likely. Does different people's skin react differently to the exposure of sunlight? Yes, it does. Does some people like the touch of wind on their face, while others do not? Yes, so it would seem. Even at this basic level, people will interpret things in different ways.
Would it really? Or would we just have to come up with some way to explain it in a way we CAN understand?
Why not? "God shined with his mercy upon his crops, and so he was able to harvest. God blessed him with offspring. yadayada" It's as good an explanation as yours. You're just trying to take an easy way out because you can't bring yourself to admit that you don't have proof to back up your claim.
I see things in -1, 0, 1.
No, you cannot "interpret" the Sun as black. There will always be exceptions, but that doesn't automatically make them right.
Not sure what you're asking here. By "come up with some way to explain", do you mean, "extensively study and analyze the universe until we finally have the answers we need to explain the various workings of the universe"? Or are you just saying everything humans do is a lie to help us understand the world?
Oh yes. That's right. I don't need to sow the seeds, or water the crops. "God" will be there to shine his mercy on my crops, and then I'll be able to harvest them.
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NeoStriker wrote...
I see things in -1, 0, 1.No, you cannot "interpret" the Sun as black. There will always be exceptions, but that doesn't automatically make them right.
Not sure what you're asking here. By "come up with some way to explain", do you mean, "extensively study and analyze the universe until we finally have the answers we need to explain the various workings of the universe"? Or are you just saying everything humans do is a lie to help us understand the world?
Oh yes. That's right. I don't need to sow the seeds, or water the crops. "God" will be there to shine his mercy on my crops, and then I'll be able to harvest them.
A very narrow minded way to look at things, if you ask me.
No, you cannot "interpret" the sun, but people will experience sunlight differently, along with the rain, the wind, smells and basically everything else. Are there any "right" way to interpret your experience of these things? Do you think you know the "right" way to enjoy a sunny afternoon or that there is only one "right" thing to feel when spring-rain is falling on your face?
Who said anything about lies? Theories would a more acknowledged term. Theories that we use to explain the universe. How many of the "scientific truths" have actually been completely proven? Not that many, I assure you. These are nothing more than speculations and guesses at how the universe works, no matter how much analyzing scientists have done to come to that conclusion.
Of course you have to do some work, but let's continue the analogy, why did hale strike down the crops of the farms in the neighboring village? Why did you have a stroke of luck with your crops? What made the rain fall just in the right place, the sun shine not too much, but not to little on your patch of land?
Basically: Why are shit working? As complex as the universe are, in all it's glory, how does it work? Why does it work? When faced with the fact that you will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of a higher being, why keep to a baseless conviction? Why not acknowledge the possibility of you being wrong?
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NeoStriker wrote...
PS: Tegumi, have something constructive to say or get the fuck out. Yes, this is an invitation for you to make this a three-way if you so desire, since I've been getting the feeling you want to say something. And no, that was not a sexual innuendo, because the thought of doing anything sexual with you makes me want to puke out my intestines.
fapfapfapfap.
On a serious note, relating to the OP, reading simply the Marquis by himself I realized can get a little depressing, so let me link you to a few more philosophers and teachers.
Bruce Lee:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee
The Buddha:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha
Everything to do with Christianity:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Christian
Anton LaVey, priest of Satanism, or whatever:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anton_LaVey
Everything about Islam:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Islam
Everything about Judaism:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Judaism
Now, obviously, if you get your knowledge entirely from wikiquote, that'll eventually fail you down the line. However, this should give you a basic, vague idea about the world, and do, study much more than what I've listed here...hope this all helps, man, good luck again.
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Chlor wrote...
NeoStriker wrote...
I see things in -1, 0, 1.No, you cannot "interpret" the Sun as black. There will always be exceptions, but that doesn't automatically make them right.
Not sure what you're asking here. By "come up with some way to explain", do you mean, "extensively study and analyze the universe until we finally have the answers we need to explain the various workings of the universe"? Or are you just saying everything humans do is a lie to help us understand the world?
Oh yes. That's right. I don't need to sow the seeds, or water the crops. "God" will be there to shine his mercy on my crops, and then I'll be able to harvest them.
A very narrow minded way to look at things, if you ask me.
No, you cannot "interpret" the sun, but people will experience sunlight differently, along with the rain, the wind, smells and basically everything else. Are there any "right" way to interpret your experience of these things? Do you think you know the "right" way to enjoy a sunny afternoon or that there is only one "right" thing to feel when spring-rain is falling on your face?
Who said anything about lies? Theories would a more acknowledged term. Theories that we use to explain the universe. How many of the "scientific truths" have actually been completely proven? Not that many, I assure you. These are nothing more than speculations and guesses at how the universe works, no matter how much analyzing scientists have done to come to that conclusion.
Of course you have to do some work, but let's continue the analogy, why did hale strike down the crops of the farms in the neighboring village? Why did you have a stroke of luck with your crops? What made the rain fall just in the right place, the sun shine not too much, but not to little on your patch of land?
Basically: Why are shit working? As complex as the universe are, in all it's glory, how does it work? Why does it work? When faced with the fact that you will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of a higher being, why keep to a baseless conviction? Why not acknowledge the possibility of you being wrong?
In this case, -1 equals God exists but he's a dickhead. 0 equals he doesn't exist. 1 equals God exists and he's cool.
If you can't see the Sun as black, why can you feel sunlight as cold?
Unless you can prove those theories are wrong, then they're correct.
You are just really grasping at straws here. Sure, "God" might be the answer to everything. But weigh that possibility in the face of a definite answer called, "Watering your fucking crops". And that is all "God" will be unless someone else chooses to find further evidence to support that "God" is what causes crops to grow. As long as "God" exists as just a possibility, "Bad luck" is just as good of an answer, if not better.
I don't know why shit works, but it does. I'll leave the reason why to the people who made it their job to find that out. I do acknowledge the possibility that I can be wrong. That eventually, we could find evidence that "God" actually exists. Until then, I am correct.
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NeoStriker wrote...
In this case, -1 equals God exists but he's a dickhead. 0 equals he doesn't exist. 1 equals God exists and he's cool.If you can't see the Sun as black, why can you feel sunlight as cold?
Unless you can prove those theories are wrong, then they're correct.
You are just really grasping at straws here. Sure, "God" might be the answer to everything. But weigh that possibility in the face of a definite answer called, "Watering your fucking crops". And that is all "God" will be unless someone else chooses to find further evidence to support that "God" is what causes crops to grow. As long as "God" exists as just a possibility, "Bad luck" is just as good of an answer, if not better.
I don't know why shit works, but it does. I'll leave the reason why to the people who made it their job to find that out. I do acknowledge the possibility that I can be wrong. That eventually, we could find evidence that "God" actually exists. Until then, I am correct.
Still very, very narrow minded, if you ask me.
Because the color of the sun is not subjective, but what you feel at the touch of sunlight is.
Unless you can prove those theories then they might be wrong. That's why they are theories, not truths. What suddenly happened to the burden of proof? But maybe that doesn't apply when you agree with/believe the claim?
True, I would never deny the possibility of God not existing unlike an atheist, claiming that he know the truth; But unless you can bring proof that he doesn't exist the possibility will always be there, in my eyes "bad luck" is just as good an answer.
No, until then the matter will remain unproved, giving both claims equal possibility of being right.
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I don't think one is better than the other, it's all just a matter of perception. If believing in God helps you sleep at night then good for you.
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Try both of them out and see what you like best. But you need to know why you're choosing to be Catholic/Atheist.
For example, I grew up in a Catholic environment. I chose to be Atheist because I think it's irrelevant whether or not there is a God. I have my own morals, ethics and I live by my own integrity. Even if God existed, I wouldn't follow any rituals or guidelines that I didn't believe in. But for people that don't like thinking and defining their own beliefs, following a religion is good for them...keeps them from being lost and confused.
For example, I grew up in a Catholic environment. I chose to be Atheist because I think it's irrelevant whether or not there is a God. I have my own morals, ethics and I live by my own integrity. Even if God existed, I wouldn't follow any rituals or guidelines that I didn't believe in. But for people that don't like thinking and defining their own beliefs, following a religion is good for them...keeps them from being lost and confused.
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Chlor wrote...
NeoStriker wrote...
In this case, -1 equals God exists but he's a dickhead. 0 equals he doesn't exist. 1 equals God exists and he's cool.If you can't see the Sun as black, why can you feel sunlight as cold?
Unless you can prove those theories are wrong, then they're correct.
You are just really grasping at straws here. Sure, "God" might be the answer to everything. But weigh that possibility in the face of a definite answer called, "Watering your fucking crops". And that is all "God" will be unless someone else chooses to find further evidence to support that "God" is what causes crops to grow. As long as "God" exists as just a possibility, "Bad luck" is just as good of an answer, if not better.
I don't know why shit works, but it does. I'll leave the reason why to the people who made it their job to find that out. I do acknowledge the possibility that I can be wrong. That eventually, we could find evidence that "God" actually exists. Until then, I am correct.
Still very, very narrow minded, if you ask me.
Because the color of the sun is not subjective, but what you feel at the touch of sunlight is.
Unless you can prove those theories then they might be wrong. That's why they are theories, not truths. What suddenly happened to the burden of proof? But maybe that doesn't apply when you agree with/believe the claim?
True, I would never deny the possibility of God not existing unlike an atheist, claiming that he know the truth; But unless you can bring proof that he doesn't exist the possibility will always be there, in my eyes "bad luck" is just as good an answer.
No, until then the matter will remain unproved, giving both claims equal possibility of being right.
Fuck me in the anus with the sharp, metal, pointy, multiple-ended end of a rake.
I'm not narrow minded. I just categorize differently from you. I am open to all ideas and all people. I just judge them to be either -1, 0, or 1.
I'm going to be completely honest now and fully explain everything I mean from what I say. You could never feel sunlight as cold. It might remind you of a sunlight-related death and send a shiver down your spine, but that's all in your head. That's as far as subjectivity goes.
Are theories fact? No. Are they supported by evidence and generally accepted by the community? Yes. Can they be disproven in light of new evidence? Yes.
There are possibilities for an infinite number of things. If you want to live your life considering only the endless possibilities and not the things right in front of you, then you are a fool.
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The way i see it is if your a christian and your wrong and their is no god well then ok doesnt really matter now does it, but what if there is and your not a christian well then you got hell : / now while thats sad that is the truth. Now as far as this conversation goes well i dont think this site is the best place to talk about it for the simple fact that your probally not going to find many true Christians on here... now as for me well lets just say ... well im not the best christian but yeah. Now im not a catholic, but before giving up religion i would encourage you to try going to different kinds of Christian churches (different denominations and such) because when i go to certain churches such as catholic ones i feel bored and sometimes question myself but, to sometimes really feel the move of god(sounds super corny) u need to go to certain churches(like four square churches or united Pentecostal or non-denominational those are the kinds i go to)and what i mean by that is some denominations dont really believe in god moving in people today which he does or miracles if im not mistaken catholics dont believe that. Now i dont diss other peoples religion or try to shove mine down anyones throat im just expressing myself.
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WeepingFlower wrote...
The way i see it is if your a christian and your wrong and their is no god well then ok doesnt really matter now does it, but what if there is and your not a christian well then you got hell : / now while thats sad that is the truth. Now as far as this conversation goes well i dont think this site is the best place to talk about it for the simple fact that your probally not going to find many true Christians on here... now as for me well lets just say ... well im not the best christian but yeah. Now im not a catholic, but before giving up religion i would encourage you to try going to different kinds of Christian churches (different denominations and such) because when i go to certain churches such as catholic ones i feel bored and sometimes question myself but, to sometimes really feel the move of god(sounds super corny) u need to go to certain churches(like four square churches or united Pentecostal or non-denominational those are the kinds i go to)and what i mean by that is some denominations dont really believe in god moving in people today which he does or miracles if im not mistaken catholics dont believe that. Now i dont diss other peoples religion or try to shove mine down anyones throat im just expressing myself.Ok, check this out, then: What if the Christians aren't right...but the Muslims are? Or the Jews? Or any of the many, many old religions that don't exist anymore? I mean, what if Zeus and the Greek gods exist, but oh man, you don't believe in them so you're going to be in Hades if you're wrong!
Do you see what I'm saying, here?