Defense of the Ancients 2

I don't think just saying: "Dota is better than LoL" is gonna help our little friend to change to the dark si- *cough* I mean, the good side of the force!

I summed it up in a very, very short sentence. To list all the reasons why its better is going to take a very long time.. ((

Well that's the point, isn't it? Coming up with that single, short sentence comes up as rather arrogant if not properly explained.

It's like saying "I shat in my pants", but not explaining because you have a digestive system that is, at the point of time, dysfunctional because your kidneys are broken and will stay broken until your appointed operation to replace said kidneys...

Just for the sake of argument.

There is no need for further explanation because DotA is simply a better game than LoL. But I do get your point.

Anyone who has ever played DotA and LoL knows that DotA is a better game. Unless they have no sense of game balance.

"For every important thing in LoL, there are three in DotA."

Yes, we both know that DotA is the better game.

But just us knowing about it won't help 623 to understand that, since he has little to no knowledge about DotA. From his POV, i'm sure we're coming across as defensive and arrogant right now, which is why I wanted you to explain and compare more clearly to him/her as to why DotA is the better game, so it will seem more civilized.



2 AM here. fuzzy thinking. will reply to this later on with a more clear thought. g'night, zzzzz

The problem is that the world is not populated by unbiased and coldly-logical people. A few friends of mine, for example, claim League is better than Dota2, simply because it's easier. And to be entirely honest, I know that's just them being upset that they're absolute trash at Dota2 despite being decent Elo players at League. To them, a game's superiority is based around how fun it is to play. Likewise, some people are just diehard loyal to a fault. They may have gotten into MOBA games via League, and are irrationally territorial about the genre when it comes to new games like Dota2 (inb4 "Dota2 isn't a new game") entering the scene. It's illogical, but it's human. That's why it's up to us to present the facts, with as little opinionated bias as possible.

Also, Dota2 is both an ARTS and a MOBA. ARTS and MOBA are just two words for the same sub-genre of RPS. Personally, a prefer the term MOBA. I don't care that it was coined as the term to define League of Legends in an attempt by Riot to break free of the genre label "Dota". MOBA is easier to say than ARTS. (At least if you don't want to sound like a retard: try saying "Dota2 is a 'moh-buh'" and then say "Dota2 is an 'arts'" and see which one gets you funnier looks.)

On a different topic, one of my favorite features about Dota2 that League has yet to implement is built-in replays. The server hosts replays of every game you play for a certain period of time (not sure how long that is yet) and allows you to download them directly from the server. This is useful because you don't have to run FRAPS or some other recording software EVERY GAME, possibly crippling your FPS, and then delete the recording if it's not a game you want a replay of--you just download the replays of games that you like, and open them up in Dota2 via the Source console. Easy shit. I had a 74 minute game a couple nights ago, my five man premade versus another five man premade. They had Naga Siren, Dark Seer, Dazzle, Night Stalker, and Bounty Hunter. I was Rubick, with Phantom Lancer, Faceless Void, Witch Doctor, and Nature's Prophet. We were losing fights all early game due to the fact that Void and Lancer are both late game hard carries, and Naga, BH, and NS are mid game ass hammers, so all we could do was keep them pushed out of our base. At around 50 minutes the game turned around and we kept them pushed long enough for us to secure Roshan, and then teamfight them under their base. Ended up team killing them, almost got team killed ourselves but Aegis kept Lancer up and he clutched the Ancient before they respawned. It was a GG all around, even the enemy team was satisfied.

Anyway, back on point. If you want to watch a replay and it's somewhat recent, you can hit the "Watch" tab at the top of the GUI, and filter by player name, (at the time the game was played, since your name can be changed) champion inclusion, date, game mode, skill level, and whether or not it was a tournament match. Just as an example, to see the game I described just now, you can search for the player Wisdom, date range 7/23/2012 to 7/24/2012 with the champion Rubick, and you'll be able to retrieve and watch my replay. It's a really cool feature that makes me love Dota2 more than I already do.

DOTA2 is a new game, yes. But DotA isn't. And all the players in LoL that matters have background in DotA. And they all say that DotA is a better game than LoL.

I have no idea how you say aRTS but if you think MOBA sounds better than aRTS...

I really have no idea how LoL made it so far. They just recently got a working spectator system and they don't even have a good replay function yet. And the entire structure is just horrible I have to say.

And if anyone is interested in DOTA2 this here is a very well written guide to get you on your feet.

Welcome to DotA, you suck.

You might say that its a lot like LoL, but you're entirely wrong. The only similarities is that there are lanes, creeps and heroes.

Spoiler:

Great guide!

"wut r heroes u mean champs ?"

Also, on the MOBA vs aRTS thing, if you try pronouncing MOBA phonetically it sounds like "moh-buh". If you try pronouncing aRTS phonetically it's just arts. But given the context of the acronym and basic English grammar, if you say "Dota2 is an arts" someone's going to think you need a repeat course of first grade English. You could always just speak out the letters of the acronym, but in that case, it's much quicker to say "moh-buh" than "ay are tee ess." It comes down to personal preference, I guess.



They got so far because there were no modern replacements for DotA following a f2p model at the time. Take that and combine it with the simplified gameplay, and it became an internet sensation. It broke down the barriers to entry that DotA had, and was easier and less expensive to play than Heroes of Newerth. I like League of Legends. I never played DotA because the community was elitist and would ban you on sight if you were caught DLing a map. Combine that with the game's difficulty-cliff and lack of matchmaking system and you had something that was completely unfriendly to new players. League got me into MOBA games, and when the opportunity to play Dota2 arrived, I gladly accepted the challenge--and I'm glad I did. Without League I would not be playing Dota2. They're two entirely different games that appeal to similar demographics, but for different reasons. I have no complaints about League as a concept; all my complaints about League are really just complaints about Riot, because FUCK Riot. Those fuckers couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel.

To each and their own.

Edited my post, check it out yo.

Agreed, their success comes from the time they released and published the game. Pretty damn sad that a game like that is so successful though... Oh well, nothing to do about that. And yeah, Riot is a horrible company.

There are imbalances in EVERY GAME, unless the game is extremely simplistic (eg: rock paper scissors), then it's only to be expected.

The fact that AM was OP is exactly why the game is imbalanced. In competitive play, there was almost no way to shut down am. Why do you think he was banned 1st in every competitive match?

If dota 2 was perfectly balanced, then it would logically mean that any hero would have the same amount of value as any others, and obviously that's not the case. Face it, any moba with a large cast is designed to have some levels of imbalance.

What was wrong with AM that made him OP? I can't imagine a situation where, for example, Faceless Void would lose in a head to head fight with AM.

You're looking at it wrong. Think of it this way, if the two teams are of similar skill, an AM will have way more farm than void will.

Just by having a blink makes all the difference. Even after nerfing his dps and attack speed hard, he is still a very viable carry. Also, I would say that AM is a lot better mid game, he can go in and out of team fights easily, damage and burn mana of the support at the back. Void is much easier to kill.

If Void can get the same amount of farm as AM, then yeah, he'll probably win late game cause of the Chrono. But dota 2 is all about pushing and early game presence. If you're playing against good players and you're down towers and gold/level early game, you're done. That's why pushers and counter pushers have been so popular in the current meta game strats and hard carries like spec are almost never picked.

No doubt. AM has a MUCH more comfortable early and mid game. Void is terribly weak early-mid. I can see what makes AM a more dangerous carry given those circumstances.

Alright, well after reading all of the responses my reply generated, I think I'll give DotA2 a go if for no reason other than to see if it will improve my LoL skills like Uzumaki suggested. I still feel like I'll retain my attachment to League, but there's no harm in trying another game.

Cool. But do be warned that DotA (I have heard, but I have rarely seen) has more of an asshole of a community compared to the other communities.... Except HON, damn those bastards are more elitists than we are.

Don't be turned off by them, since they're just idiots that have no idea how to handle or teach an newbie (if you ask for help and they don't reply, use reverse psychology on them like "Nothing to say? So for a DotA veteran, you have no idea what items to give ? lololol, some veteran you are"

Anyway, here are tips:



Man. I have more to say, but there's just so much diff. between the game to state about. Denying is the one thing that I wanted to state too, but I guess you'll come to learn about them when you meet "Deniers" (is that spelled right?), people who shut down others by constantly denying while maintaining their fair share of farm.

[color=#9D0A0A]Do you even know WHY he was picked so much at TI1? I bet you don't.

AM is hardly picked anymore, hes a very rare pick these days, and I guess you have no idea why that is either? Why not pick heroes that are broken, right?

You're clueless. The reason he was picked so much was because he was amazingly strong with the heroes that existed back then. There weren't many heroes at all. And he was easily shutdown back then, and is still as easy to shut him down.

@623
Don't rely on anyone but yourself in pubs. Don't trust anyone.

Animation canceling is one of the most important things you will have to learn. Its pretty much what it sounds like. Cancel the animation before it is complete. In most cases the actual damage or spell comes out before the entire animation is done, thus you can gain time by canceling it as soon as the spell/hit is out.

This can also be used to fake out opponents if your hero has a very tell-tale animation when he is going to cast a spell. Take Leshrac for example

He goes up on his back hooves and tries to stun. If you press your key bound to Stop, which is default 'S' he will still do the animation, but not the actual spell.

Actually AM isn't picked because of play style more than anything else. Chinese SEA team still use/ban AM a lot. You don't see AM picked nowadays because you only get to see EU/NA teams play and their play style usually instigates to having no carry at all.

He's still the best carry in the game, exception maybe morphling.

He's not the best carry in the game, and he's not being picked anymore because of all the counters he was facing in DotA are now in DOTA2. And that there are better line-ups to pick than AM. Sure, hes still an amazing hero. But wasn't OP. We might as well just call Lycan OP as well. Maybe throw in some more heroes that completely stomps pubs ?

And I don't watch EU/US DotA unless there's an interesting match going on. Chinese by far the most entertaining DotA to watch.