[Locked] Discussion: Unlicensed Content Removal
0
623
FAKKU QA
sawr wrote...
Unlicensed removeal.It's mean we need to pay to view anything in this website?
Eventually, yes. Jacob said that he will try and have some free content though.
0
BitNdragon
More Than A God
Just curious when will the first magazine/s be uploading? I assume sometime this month but just wanted to ask and see if you guys have a clear date in mind you can talk about now that anime expo is over or if it is still "Soon"
-2
My thoughts on the matter. I understand where they are coming from by ensuring that the original authors receive credit and compensation for the work they have so diligently created. However, I (a member for several years and someone who has bought several books) take issue with it because something I have always enjoyed about the site is the variety of artwork provided concerning some of my favorite anime characters. Reading the posts here made by the site creators and moderators I fear all of those will be going away due to licensing issues, mainly copyright claims on Intellectual Property misuse. Honestly after reading Jacobs first post the giant "Sellout" bell was ringing in my head as he spoke about attracting more publishing deals. In short I am very disappointed as again I have bought books from here before, I am happy to support the creators of such products, but I don't have any desire to pay for every little thing I look at on this site, and the "potential" for free things does not constitute a guarantee. To me this is a betrayal in some facets to the people who have supported this site for many years. After I have finished downloading the books I have purchased and backing them up on my hard drives, I will not be returning for further business. Good day.
4
TrixieTang
Magical NTR Princess
LethalCommissar wrote...
Honestly after reading Jacobs first post the giant "Sellout" bell was ringing in my head as he spoke about attracting more publishing deals.Yeah, attracting more publishing deals so Fakku can bring people more uncensored, translated, high-quality content all while supporting the very same creators that you claim to be "happy to support".
That said, there really is no in-between here. Either Fakku stays as a (technically illegal) download site that offers free content that they don't have the right to distribute. Or Fakku goes legit and only has content that they've licensed and have the rights to.
2
raichama
Audio Technica Fanboy
Definitely hoping for the Crunchyroll effect to take hold here. CR first had to strike a deal with TV Tokyo, and then as time went on Crunchyroll has not only expanded the reach of legal anime, but also Asian dramas and even manga.
Obviously H-manga and doujinshi are a niche market, even in Japan, but if the recent "gifts" are suggesting what I think they are suggesting, and the positive feedback from H-manga artists like Bosshi and Pyon-Kti keeps coming. I think we can start seeing a Fakku that is not only legit, but has a larger reach than scanalators could ever have. Just think about it, right now H-manga scanalations basically rely on donations. I can definitely imagine a Fakku where for a similar sub fee as CR, we can get an all-you-can-eat package of magazine H-manga and doujinshi, while the larger tankobon are still paid for, maybe discounts for subscribers.
I see all this pushback and I'm puzzled. We've literally been stealing for years and years, every time promising ourselves that we can give back other ways. For anime we justified pirating it because we said we could buy merchandise. But Crunchyroll came in and showed the industry that a Netflix style royalty-based system of bringing legal anime to the States and beyond can actually work. Whatever, it's my two cents on this topic. I welcome the change, right now, sadpanda can probably ease any transitional problems Fakku's legitimization will have. But one day, maybe one day we can have legit H-manga in abundance for a good price...one day.
Obviously H-manga and doujinshi are a niche market, even in Japan, but if the recent "gifts" are suggesting what I think they are suggesting, and the positive feedback from H-manga artists like Bosshi and Pyon-Kti keeps coming. I think we can start seeing a Fakku that is not only legit, but has a larger reach than scanalators could ever have. Just think about it, right now H-manga scanalations basically rely on donations. I can definitely imagine a Fakku where for a similar sub fee as CR, we can get an all-you-can-eat package of magazine H-manga and doujinshi, while the larger tankobon are still paid for, maybe discounts for subscribers.
I see all this pushback and I'm puzzled. We've literally been stealing for years and years, every time promising ourselves that we can give back other ways. For anime we justified pirating it because we said we could buy merchandise. But Crunchyroll came in and showed the industry that a Netflix style royalty-based system of bringing legal anime to the States and beyond can actually work. Whatever, it's my two cents on this topic. I welcome the change, right now, sadpanda can probably ease any transitional problems Fakku's legitimization will have. But one day, maybe one day we can have legit H-manga in abundance for a good price...one day.
0
I can understand why Jacob has been holding out so much info on us (including deleting my question about nuked content): the more specific details I learn about what the plans are for Fakku, the less I'm able to see myself using it anymore. I respect what you're aiming to do, but the way it's being done is absolutely terrible. Alienating fans of "controversial" tags, removing content with zero explanation that had only even been added shortly before, and feeding us all this information piecemeal over several weeks has just exhausted any interest I could have had in a new potential subscription model. If you break the ground that leads to another successful model (or hell, if you turn this ship around and get Fakku to the level of diversity in content that you had pre-purge even if not the same quantity) then I'll see what the asking price is. Until then, I'll be exclusively browsing other sites.
1
I've already made my point known about scanlations, scanlators, customers and whatnot, but it doesn't matter right now. This is a pretty big blow to me, as Fakku was always the main focus of our group. I am not sure at this point if I want to keep going, maybe I'll just wrap whatever ongoing project I have up then I'll quit.
It's just a bit sad that the hardcore niches who have always made up for most of this alleged piracy won't be really affected (going legit will never stop them from pirating, just like Crunchyroll didn't), while the many many people making the casual masses, those who have only seen a very minute percentage of the hentai uploaded on the internet, will be the ones to pay the most, both figuratively and literally.
It's just a bit sad that the hardcore niches who have always made up for most of this alleged piracy won't be really affected (going legit will never stop them from pirating, just like Crunchyroll didn't), while the many many people making the casual masses, those who have only seen a very minute percentage of the hentai uploaded on the internet, will be the ones to pay the most, both figuratively and literally.
-1
this model won't stop piracy, people will always want it for free, I've already found plenty of gallery sites with the books offered here digitally, its just truly sad to see it go the way of the bs pay model like Crunchyroll.
1
Aznable wrote...
this model won't stop piracy, people will always want it for free, I've already found plenty of gallery sites with the books offered here digitally, its just truly sad to see it go the way of the bs pay model like Crunchyroll.We are choosing to work with and support the artists. If you want to continue pirating that's fine, but you're the one who's in the wrong.
1
Jacob wrote...
Aznable wrote...
this model won't stop piracy, people will always want it for free, I've already found plenty of gallery sites with the books offered here digitally, its just truly sad to see it go the way of the bs pay model like Crunchyroll.We are choosing to work with and support the artists. If you want to continue pirating that's fine, but you're the one who's in the wrong.
piracy fallacy one pirated copy does not equal a lost sold unit because how do you know they were going to buy it in the first place? You can steal a tangible object. If I steal an orange from somebody, I am depriving them of that orange because they no longer have it and I do. Copying mp3 files isn't the same at all. You could make the argument that I'm depriving somebody of revenue, but that is making the assumption that I would buy movies and music if I couldn't get them for free.
And what exactly will you do when people who pay for this get their hands on whole volumes and upload them onto torrent or already illegal sites hosted in EU countries or some African countries where DMCA and take down's go unnoticed?
2
Likhos01
Monster Girl Lover
Aznable wrote...
Jacob wrote...
Aznable wrote...
this model won't stop piracy, people will always want it for free, I've already found plenty of gallery sites with the books offered here digitally, its just truly sad to see it go the way of the bs pay model like Crunchyroll.We are choosing to work with and support the artists. If you want to continue pirating that's fine, but you're the one who's in the wrong.
piracy fallacy one pirated copy does not equal a lost sold unit because how do you know they were going to buy it in the first place? You can steal a tangible object. If I steal an orange from somebody, I am depriving them of that orange because they no longer have it and I do. Copying mp3 files isn't the same at all. You could make the argument that I'm depriving somebody of revenue, but that is making the assumption that I would buy movies and music if I couldn't get them for free.
And what exactly will you do when people who pay for this get their hands on whole volumes and upload them onto torrent or already illegal sites hosted in EU countries or some African countries where DMCA and take down's go unnoticed?
It's about ethic, if you like something, you'd rather like to support the artist.
If you think the artist is unworthy of money then it's fine.
If it's simply convenient to have it pirated and you don't do it for the guy behind it, don't be surprised when peoples tell you you are a dick.
4
Aznable wrote...
Jacob wrote...
Aznable wrote...
this model won't stop piracy, people will always want it for free, I've already found plenty of gallery sites with the books offered here digitally, its just truly sad to see it go the way of the bs pay model like Crunchyroll.We are choosing to work with and support the artists. If you want to continue pirating that's fine, but you're the one who's in the wrong.
piracy fallacy one pirated copy does not equal a lost sold unit because how do you know they were going to buy it in the first place? You can steal a tangible object. If I steal an orange from somebody, I am depriving them of that orange because they no longer have it and I do. Copying mp3 files isn't the same at all. You could make the argument that I'm depriving somebody of revenue, but that is making the assumption that I would buy movies and music if I couldn't get them for free.
And what exactly will you do when people who pay for this get their hands on whole volumes and upload them onto torrent or already illegal sites hosted in EU countries or some African countries where DMCA and take down's go unnoticed?
I'm saying you're morally wrong. But really, you're just being an asshole. I have no problem with people pirating our books, especially people who can't afford the books in the first place. And I do not believe that piracy hurts sales, in fact it probably improves sales in the long-term. But I think we are making a product worth spending money on, and for you to come on here and say you are going to pirate our books just because you're mad that we are working with the artists to make them available officially? That's just you being an immature child.
-2
Jacob wrote...
It's interesting that you say "You do not stab in the back those who carried you to the top".. The artists in Japan, the publishers in Japan, those are the ones that helped FAKKU become what it is. Those are the people who created all the content that we scanlate, read, and fap to.That's something I can't completely agree.
0
Jacob wrote...
I'm saying you're morally wrong. But really, you're just being an asshole. I have no problem with people pirating our books, especially people who can't afford the books in the first place. And I do not believe that piracy hurts sales, in fact it probably improves sales in the long-term. But I think we are making a product worth spending money on, and for you to come on here and say you are going to pirate our books just because you're mad that we are working with the artists to make them available officially? That's just you being an immature child.Well fucking said. Why is it so hard for people to understand this?
Someone worked hard to make something that I enjoy. Isn't it fucking normal to compensate that person? What kind of world do you people live in where this isn't a given? How is it that you don't even consider thanking the person who entertained you? I'm not even talking about paying at this point. I would bet my savings that not even 10% of the community has even bothered to spend 2 minutes on Twitter or write a bloody e-mail to show any appreciation. Instead it's none of that, nothing. How do you think that makes us look as a community?
0
artcellrox
The Grey Knight :y
Volaverunt wrote...
Jacob wrote...
It's interesting that you say "You do not stab in the back those who carried you to the top".. The artists in Japan, the publishers in Japan, those are the ones that helped FAKKU become what it is. Those are the people who created all the content that we scanlate, read, and fap to.That's something I can't completely agree.
Really? You sure about that? Let's repeat that in a clearer picture, shall we?
- Users and content: Fakku is what it is now
- No users, but content: Fakku can exist, but it's rather dead so it wouldn't really last long.
- Users, but no content: Fakku doesn't exist. ExHentai doesn't exist. No Pururin, gelbooru or any other site like that. People would be going about in a world without hentai.
This is what Jake meant. Yes, the community and traffic help a lot, but like it or not, Fakku and so many other similar sites exist BECAUSE hentai exists. People came here for the content, the content didn't just come here for the people. Jake could have handled the PR of all this better, but this really is a step forward for the site in my opinion, benefiting all parties involved in the long run.
0
artcellrox wrote...
Really?Really.
You sure about that?
Yep.
Let's repeat that in a clearer picture, shall we?
Oh that won't be nec-
- Users and content: Fakku is what it is now
- No users, but content: Fakku can exist, but it's rather dead so it wouldn't really last long.
- Users, but no content: Fakku doesn't exist. ExHentai doesn't exist. No Pururin, gelbooru or any other site like that. People would be going about in a world without hentai.
This is what Jake meant. Yes, the community and traffic help a lot, but like it or not, Fakku and so many other similar sites exist BECAUSE hentai exists.
I already understand this, I never denied that. And even you pointed what I have said before, users and content have helped this site (and others) to grow and make hentai more known to the people. Of course it's thanks to the artists and publishers in Japan in the first place that hentai exist, but translators, scanlators, aggregator sites, users, etc have also helped to make Fakku what it is now, that's what I'm saying. That's why I don't completely agree with what Jacob said. He may have had the pure intentions to become legit one day and not just make Fakku a "pirate site", but thanks to that pirated content and the people who put the effort to scan and translate it is that this has grown big. I see this as a city that has been growing over the years thanks to the effort of everyone and I'm happy that finally hentai is being published by legit means, and by a competent way as well. But saying it's only thanks to the artists is not something I can completely agree. That's what I think.
The guy that was talking to him in the post I quoted is an idiot though, just the typical guy who thinks he' entitled to everything because he's an "user".
People came here for the content, the content didn't just come here for the people. Jake could have handled the PR of all this better, but this really is a step forward for the site in my opinion, benefiting all parties involved in the long run.
Definitely. And not only here.
-3
Let me spell it out for the last 6 naive posts that just don't get the problem: You have done nothing to abate piracy by offering no alternative to the majority of the site's content, but decided to nuke it and never have any of it ever again.
I speak of doujinshi in general, primarily the parody doujinshi of which there are around 900 different series represented on this site last I counted (I can't count now because for some reason that page is broken, good job). You've ensured that this significant amount of content and options is going away permanently. You've offered no alternative but rather encourage people to continue pirating them, just not here. You've shown no effort or attempts to create some sort of option to provide this content in a licensed manner, or any way whatsoever to support those artists and those works of theirs. If anything, you've completely insulted and kicked all those artists to the curb without even thinking twice simply because it's the easiest thing to do. So excuse me if that hypocrisy of yours doesn't strike several chords with me and much of the userbase, in more ways than one, because of the scope of Jacob's decisions and how piss-poorly he has communicated and implemented it.
In doing so I'm pretty sure you've also kicked, or plan to kick, a lot of your scanlators to the curb, which you've been gracious enough in the past to host their blogs on your domain. I'm pretty sure your move towards "legitimacy" will involve taking all their sites down since all they deal in is unlicensed works. If so, that's fucking low.
I get that you had to do "something" because of reasons involving legalities, lawsuits, cease & desists, whatever it is that you've been rather vague and/or quiet about over the last year. But what you've decided to do comes across as half-assed, sloppy, and hamfisted. And by failing to provide the same content that a lot of your users come here for does not give you any right to call them "assholes" or "immature" for deciding to continue pirating, when you have done nothing to offer them a legitimate alternative. Feasible or not, it's a discussion you were in a position to start. You could've created some process for it, started some form of negotiation with some parties, I don't fucking know, because it's such a gray area that it's definitely not a "fuck this doujinshi crap, too many problems to deal with" issue. If artists have the right to publish and make money off these works, I fail to see how you couldn't have done something to bring those works here. But I know you did nothing, and that's just a slap in the face to the users.
I speak of doujinshi in general, primarily the parody doujinshi of which there are around 900 different series represented on this site last I counted (I can't count now because for some reason that page is broken, good job). You've ensured that this significant amount of content and options is going away permanently. You've offered no alternative but rather encourage people to continue pirating them, just not here. You've shown no effort or attempts to create some sort of option to provide this content in a licensed manner, or any way whatsoever to support those artists and those works of theirs. If anything, you've completely insulted and kicked all those artists to the curb without even thinking twice simply because it's the easiest thing to do. So excuse me if that hypocrisy of yours doesn't strike several chords with me and much of the userbase, in more ways than one, because of the scope of Jacob's decisions and how piss-poorly he has communicated and implemented it.
In doing so I'm pretty sure you've also kicked, or plan to kick, a lot of your scanlators to the curb, which you've been gracious enough in the past to host their blogs on your domain. I'm pretty sure your move towards "legitimacy" will involve taking all their sites down since all they deal in is unlicensed works. If so, that's fucking low.
I get that you had to do "something" because of reasons involving legalities, lawsuits, cease & desists, whatever it is that you've been rather vague and/or quiet about over the last year. But what you've decided to do comes across as half-assed, sloppy, and hamfisted. And by failing to provide the same content that a lot of your users come here for does not give you any right to call them "assholes" or "immature" for deciding to continue pirating, when you have done nothing to offer them a legitimate alternative. Feasible or not, it's a discussion you were in a position to start. You could've created some process for it, started some form of negotiation with some parties, I don't fucking know, because it's such a gray area that it's definitely not a "fuck this doujinshi crap, too many problems to deal with" issue. If artists have the right to publish and make money off these works, I fail to see how you couldn't have done something to bring those works here. But I know you did nothing, and that's just a slap in the face to the users.
-1
luinthoron
High Priest of Loli
thisguythatguy42 wrote...
You've offered no alternative but rather encourage people to continue pirating them, just not here. You've shown no effort or attempts to create some sort of option to provide this content in a licensed manner, or any way whatsoever to support those artists and those works of theirs. If anything, you've completely insulted and kicked all those artists to the curb without even thinking twice simply because it's the easiest thing to do.I'm quite sure that it has already been stated here before that removing unlicensed content was, among other reasons, necessary for other publishers to agree to work with Fakku. This clearly makes it a step in the direction of possibly licensing and bringing back at least some of the content.
It is, however, most definitely not an insult to the artists or "kicking them to the curb". Removing something you've technically stolen from the artists can't possibly be an insult to them, but rather showing them your respect.
And what alternative, other than trying to license this content, could Fakku possibly offer? To be a respectable publisher that the Japanese partners actually agree to work with, they can not keep offering unlicensed content as well. As sad as it is to see it go, permanently or temporarily, depending on who they can partner with in the future, this is what they have to do.
0
deadsx
Lvl 99
thisguythatguy42 wrote...
In doing so I'm pretty sure you've also kicked, or plan to kick, a lot of your scanlators to the curb, which you've been gracious enough in the past to host their blogs on your domain. I'm pretty sure your move towards "legitimacy" will involve taking all their sites down since all they deal in is unlicensed works. If so, that's fucking low.
I acutally asked about that already.
My original quisetion "Whats going to happen with the groups/translators using a fakku.net adress like Phoenix Syndicate or CGrascal? Would going legit affect there place here at all?"
Blogs we host are not impacted by events that happen on the main site. Each blog operates as its own entity.