americans?

The fact that we revere celebrity isn't the issue. It's about how they have represented us. We only revere them because they have wealthy, rich and are famous. We don't like them because they are perfect, no human kind is. Every celebrity even in your country can be corrupt and is still looked up to. It's not just America, so stop pointing fingers before seeing your own problems.

As for electing our representatives and leaders that are corrupt doesn't make Americans less inteligent or less educated. It just shows how the power of the media can infulence people and that false promises can be fatal. I'm sure the Nazi party thought it was going to be all fun and games when they elected Hitler to be their leader. I'm sure the british thought it was the greatest form of government when they set up Monarchy. But were they really? No, but did that make the people stupid? Again, no. That just showed that power can corrupt people and there is nothing the people can do about it. The American case also shows how the media can make someone so great that it can lead to someones demise with one little mistake. Many people make mistakes like the celebrities do, but they don't look at it as bad when celebrities do it. If your going to point fingers point it at the media, and not just the American media, media all over the world is bashing on America as a scape goat to the problems in their own country.

I'm not trying to offend other nationals by saying this, I'm just merly pointing out the fact that you have problems in your country too. In fact I even want to visit countries that have their problems, because I know that it doesn't apply to the whole country. Your just made to believe that America is bad. Though this doesn't apply to the people hating on America even though it's their own country without giving it a chance, and living in it. If they hate it so much, move. Simple, and you don't have to bitch about it.



Thank you for agreeing, I thought I was the only one who still thought America was still a country worth living in. As for rude people, that depends on where you are living, but EVERY country has rude people, and when I went to Korea, the people there automatically thought Americans were nicer than their own, because the people in the city were so rude and they thought it couldn't get any worse.




The only person that has double posted on the page... you...

in the same respect the only reason celebrities are considered representation is because your media and population give them that right by following everything they say like gospel. Do you honestly believe Scientology would be where it is today without the influences of celebrities? You give them credence and they use it, can't blame them for taking the ball and running with it...

As for politics, it's the two party system that seemingly endorses the major issues you have, instead of having a more balanced government you have extreme leftists or the extreme right wing leading your country; it almost seem like you've never heard of moderation(not an insult, just how it is), the media just exploits the problems. As for other countries blaming America for their problems, i have yet to see anything you're talking about other than if you're referring to the middle east/China/North Korea; the rest of the world only reports a microscopic amount of your news; the rest is their own information. If anything the bashing is partly based off your news but also partly based off American tourists; I can't tell you the amount of Americans that have come to my country expecting things to be the same as their own; with little to no information about the country they're visiting.

@lightning227, you're dumb. The question was asked, don't cry because you don't like the answer.

For following celebrities like a gospel, the media does it because the people like to hear down fall of great people, the people watch it and give the media power to do this, because of hunger to hear others people's success/failure. It's part of every country. Your making it sound as if it's only our media. And also if it is part of everyone's country, shouldn't you know not to judge a country by a celebrity? Sure, they are a symbol, but you you can't judge a book by its cover.

You say that we don't keep up on other countries news? If you look at history in the recent years of presidential elections, all the presidents in our terms is dubbed moderate while running for presidency, and they are in a party seemingly just to get support of one side. It's when they come into office that they show their true colors of being an extremist. Also some people have strong opinions on things that others are opposed to, and when they find allies they will join it and that becomes the party system. It's not out of stupidity that we do it, it is out of human nature. And yes the media exploits the problems because that's what EVERY media does not just our own.

And as for other countries broadcasting media, yes I did mean China, middle east, etc. And as for our own media being broadcasted in other countries bashing on ourselves, I hate that. As I mentioned in my previous post, I see why other countries hate us since WE set ourselves up and other countries just see what is broadcasted and believe it without finding out facts by themselves. They don't even consider that they could have a problem of their own when watching how the "bad" Americans are doing. Also, seeing how you keep seeing America as a stand alone country of doing these things, you seem to have missed the whole point of my previous post regarding how every country, has a problem and not just us.

Sorry to intervene in yours and waar's debate, but I'd like to mention a few things along the lines.

Regarding Scientology and the media: I agree with Waar on that point to 100%. Sorry, but they are screwed up and Germany is taking a pretty harsh stand against it, which is only right in my opinion. They aren't allowed to e.g. tell little children about their "religion" (I'd rather call it brainwashing) in kindergartens (thanks for adopting the German word btw :D) and have been prohibited from helping funding kindergartens, schools etc pretty much.

Regarding the media and their interventions and twisting political aspects, I have to agree. You can read 2 different newspapers about the same interview and it might seem like they have been interviewing two different persons from two different parties.
However regarding american politics, I have to say that they are a bit ridiculous from my point of view. First of all, I think the "two parties system" is wrong. You have no real alternate choices. I can only speak from the German and Danish point of view as they influence me, but we have a good number of choices that afflict the politics in the country and even if you vote for a "minor" (which isn't always minor) party, due to the need of coalitions, the vote isn't "wasted".

The other problem about your politics is in my opinion that you allow the lobbies to have influence on your politics. That usually leads to large problems when it comes to e.g. reformations in the system as soon as it comes to topics like global warming etc. (yes I know the shoo is old, yet it fits perfectly here)


Regarding the celebrity topic: the states are the #1 spreader of celebrities and are idolizing their celebrities to a dangerous degree. Of course the same happens in every other country, but a sad fact is that the amount of influence they have in the states is a bit over the top. The main problem is that due to globalization, every cult, trend, whatever you want to call it spreads way faster and due to the simple mass of inhabitants in the States and the cultural differences, you become the #1 spreader or plague sometimes for these things. That isn't something you could change except by censoring the media way stronger... which than would most likely lead to your entire press crying for press-freedom.

That's about the biggest issue I have with America. Celebrities and big sport players make millions of dollars for entertainment, however a EMT will make $10 an hour when their job is to keep you alive and alleviate your pain until you make it to the hospital.

Teachers are paid very lowly, while in Japan they pay teachers very well. I think teaching is one of the most important jobs you can have. You're educating someone else for their future. Why shouldn't they get paid well for that?

But other then that I don't have any qualms with myself or a lot of other Americans. They're average people just living their lives.

And really you can't sit here and point fingers at us for being at fault for our government. "Us" not "America" - hell I just turned 18 and haven't even voted yet. I sure as hell didn't get to pick how my government runs or where I was born. The government didn't take a shit over night.

That's a problem most Americans have with America.

ok,i seem to came out of nowhere,and i'm not american,but i feel the need to do something about american's negative image.

let me tell you guys:AMERICANS ARE CONSISTING OF MOSTLY GOOD,ROCKING,BLUE-COLLAR PEOPLE WHO HAD THEIR COUNTRY'S NAME TAINTED BY THE ACTS OF THE TOP BRASS/FAMOUS PEOPLE AND TRAPPED IN A BAD SYSTEM(bad education system,bad insurance policy,bad waging policy,etc.)

THEY CONTRIBUTED A LOT TO THE WORLD.WITHOUT AMERICANS THERE WONT BE ANY LIGHTBULBS.OR PLANES.OR EVEN YOUR COUNTRIES(we'd be nazi german's lapdog had the american didn't join the ww2).

think.

I really don't see how celebrities telling children of their religion is brainwashing. They probably only get to speak to them maybe a day or so at the most and to try and get something into the head of a kid takes much longer than that. I also don't see the problem of donating money to Kindergartens (thx for the word). Even if I didn't argue these points they would have been invalid points of argument since our laws dictate these are ok things to do so it really doesn't depend on the people. This is one of the most important Bill of Rights and I highly doubt it's going to get ammended. Sure it's a way for celebrities to gain publicity, but you aren't looking at the celebrities who started this out of genuine kindness. Plus I really don't think Waar meant teaching the kids the religion is a bad thing when he said "following them like the gospel."

I'm glad you see that the media is twisting everything around. But most everyone sees it but never really follow up on not believing what they say.

As for the two party politics, this is where you are getting hypocritical. Your country, Germany has a two party system also dominated by the CDU and SPD. It really doesn't matter if there is a two party system or three. It's just choices on what to join. It's when those two parties promise things and the people believe in it out of hope and thats how parties get support and then turn the people down after they have gained trust. It's not the people's fault, it is the people on the high chairs, which DO NOT make up the majority of the country and their thoughts DO NOT reflect the minds of this country. Since we are in a loop of re-accusing America for something I have already explained in previous posts, I'll explain it again here again. We aren't stupid when we vote people in, it is just the fact that these people give us false promises that seem to be good then after they have gotten their position, they do something completely different making the people innocent. This also does not ONLY apply to America I'm sure your countries have the same problems.

The reason you think the American celebrities have such a big influence on us more than other countries celebrities having effect on theirs is purely based on population of the celebrities. We have a huge population of celebrities giving us a wide variety of people to idolize. It is not because we are stupid, it's because we are set up to be stupid and seriously it really isn't stupid to like a celebrity. I'm sure you've all had one celebrity you've looked up to at one point or another.
Seeing as how we have such a large number of celebrity and so many people that idolize them, the media uses this to exploit how many viewers they can catch people watching, so their ratings go up. The conclusion it's because the sheer number of celebrities that America has become the number 1 nation to have such a big fan base, not because we are retarded. Yes we have our own people who are against it, but with the media pumping us full of this stuff, some people find it as a losing battle and give up.

Though I do have to say Arnold becoming the gov. of Cali was a bit ridiculous, but you have to consider the fact that if any place is going to do it, it would be Cali because Hollywood is there, but does it make them a bad state? No. Does that make America bad? No. If more people are going to bash on America, I say find legitimate reasons and for reasons I mean something that isn't based on human nature and something other countries don't do, and be considerate, because there are some people on this forum who still feel pride at living in this country.



Thank you for looking past the veil of the media. :) I also believe your one of the few people who still remember what America has done for other nations. Not trying to be conceited, just saying most people forget.

We aren't the only country to have someone in power either that's a celebrity. I remember talking to someone in RO who said they have someone in power that was a celebrity idol. God I wish I remember where he was from. I'll have to ask my friend. He was saying how people don't always vote for the right reasons, hence the reason they have a celebrity as a political leader of some sorts.

Again, same shit different places.
I'll edit this later with what country he's in

As for part a) True enough, your right there. As for part b) I don't think that hit's the point. Truth to be told, it was just the way things developed. It is nothing to thank America for in general, but the inventions were done by the persons named. So much for generalization. As for WW II, yes, your country did do a good bunch of good things, but as before it is a "What if" thing. If you wouldn't name yourself "Americans" you would probably be British and still a colony by now :P


However PersonDude, seems like we missed each other somewhere along the path. I wasn't blaming the celebrities for scientology. I am blaming the law that a, let's call it "dubious" organization like that can work like it does. On that note: Celebrity or not, no person is warded against stupidity, so if they fall for it it is their own problem.

As for the general celebrity consensus: I think I wasn't trying to criticize you with what I said. I was trying to point out that due to the large amount of different cultures and mentalities it is only natural that your nation spreads way more "messages" and has a greater influence than others. It just so happens that due to the media, things often get across in a different way than it was meant to be.

Regarding German politics: The SPD and CDU story is a bit worn out by now. Yes, they are the two major parties, however the others have a large influence aswell. I for one rather vote for a "minor" party that is doing what it promised and that I find more agreeable with my own opinions, rather than a large party where my own opinion is met to only 15%. Also the balance in political power is currently shifting in Germany.

@eranikum
could mr.edison invent all his invention without his american employee?
uh-huh.don't think so.

could mr.wright invent the wright flyer without american made engine?

or even,would those guys invent something without america or another american?

had there no america(n),and the british still colonized them,guys like edison and wright might still be coal miners to this day.
not inventors.

That is exactly the point about those "what if's" and generalization that I tried to point out. You can't say "because he is from nation xxx he managed to invent it". Nationality is one of the things that doesn't really matter when it comes to scientific things, as long as they aren't military (though that is relative as inventions are often a matter of prestige).
However when it comes to social things, nationality does matter as it reflects upon your system. As an example: Only people with educational standard X know that Niels Bohr (the one who came up with the "common" even though a bit outdated atom model) was Danish. Even though this was an important thing, as most schools are teaching it these days, people don't care too much about his nationality, as he doesn't "influence their daily lives."
That however is the problem with celebrities etc. Due to the media sprouting and shouting their (excuse me please) shit all over the place, people think them important as they see them as "conveyor of messages". So for, let's call him random dude 0832, sitting infront of the TV in Timbuktu, the things celebrity, let's call her A328, say are conveyed to him as more important as the person is living right now and has a "higher status".
So all in all you have to say: Blame the media of your country, blame the politicians and blame the educational system, not the people.

that i agree with you.
ironic,isn't it?they're mostly good people,but their own system fucks them up.

@ZiggyOtaku: Nup we aren't. Croatia's Mirko Filipović also known as "CroCop" was a famous kickboxer and was in MMA and was elected into the parlament for a while.

@Eranikum: I guess I've been on the defensive since everyone has been bashing and throwing around words such as "you americans","you guys" and "you" involving every citizen which includes me to be directly responsible for the problems that really aren't in our power to correct most of the time.

As for the German two party system, I guess I'll have to look it up. College has made me become secluded to a world of my own... :S

As for our laws allowing celebrities freedom, that is democracy. I beleive it should be allowed since I believe in freedom. Sure it is wrong, but it is also wrong to restrict people for those things that aren't harming other people directly. It's people's own fault for looking up to them and making it their lives. Sure it makes Americans bad, but I think America would look worse if we restricted the freedom which we have based our country on... Though it seems even that freedom is starting to be taken away slowly...

I don't condemn religions and religious freedom in normal cases. What I condemn is the fact that people tend to overlook the fact that people that tried to leave scientology got threatened and blackmailed, which is an illegal action.

So as an example: Even though I don't like Jehova's witnesses knocking at my door at 5.30 AM, they don't have any bad intentions, so I tell them kindly (or not depending on the mood), that I would like to go back to sleep and would rather stick with my own beliefs :)

freedom is always a good thing as long as you don't go overboard.
the celebrities are really the part of that freedom.
you're free to become whatever you want,no?
yes,what the celebs done is mostly wrong,but they're still ok,because it's partly the watchers fault to imitate their wrongdoings.....

....but what your government did is CATASTHROPE.
if they think they got the freedom to troll over others freedom(see the aftermath of iraq mission after saddam caught),they're wrong.

damn,i hate your current government. :evil:
but still,i love most of the people. :D

As I have said, I believe in freedom and I believe that is wrong that people are being black mailed for things such as that. It is their choice if they want to leave or not. Me personally have never come across ANYONE who believed in scientology personally or hardly ever hear of it, so I'm guessing its not as infulential as you guys are putting it. I haven't even heard of people being threatened for leaving the belief either. But I do believe if that is happening, then it should be persecuted, and our law does NOT allow threatening people to happen, it is just the infulential people covering their tracks with money with with crazy ass lawyer. You can't blame our laws for this either.



Yeah, I don't agree with the government either, and there were some people trying to protest about it, and I think it got buried...

Most of us hate it too. So you're not alone.