Do Feminists Ever Consider That They Might Be Wrong?

It's actually quite common to see this type of thing happen when it arises. Those who are assaulted in any fashion can develop a dating trend where they are targeted by abusive partners or they unknowingly seek men who are similar to their abuser. I know it sounds crazy and you think to yourself "wtf? why would someone choose to be with an abusive partner?" As I said, the person who has suffered tends to repeat the cycle of abuse they originally felt at one point and have a hard time getting out of it. I had a friend in college who was raped at 16 and ever since has been with more abusive/crazy partners then any person could count who treat her like garbage. Tried to encourage her to talk to me or talk to someone about these things, but she was in another world through all of this sadly.

All of this relates to self esteem and perception of what a relationship is. If you've never experienced love or happiness, chances are you may not know what it is even if it came your way. Takes time and the right people/support to get you back into a healthier lifestyle.

I'm also going to put this out there, no person deserves to be abused or assaulted in any manner so when I mention that this woman may be putting herself in such situations, I don't mean to indicate she wants it or is asking for it. She just needs help and to work on herself to find a better way of living; those that have hurt her should be persecuted or at the very least kicked in the nuts for taking advantage of such a woman.

As for the rest of what that user is saying, they sort of went on their own tangent as to why feminism is needed rather then debate the original OP question. I personally myself don't see the harm in having activism towards women rights/helping women who are still struggling or at the very least maintaining the rights we have today, just not the extreme arrogant forms and the anti-groups that have developed as a result. Funny how people who are against feminism can be just as bad as the extreme ones out there lol.

You have to actually state what you have trouble with because the general statement will of course hold because some people do take it to extremes.

You later stated about rape culture. I am glad you think this sounds crazy, but it is true. The idea to have another drink to encourage a girl to soften up to you is rape culture.

Baby it's cold outside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MFJ7ie_yGU

When Canada started to address this rape culture and saying "don't be that guy" there was a measurable improvement. This being an improvement over the standard campaign of addressing the woman to be safe.

http://theviolencestopshere.ca/dbtg.php

Call me heartless but I have no sympathy for those who cant learn from their mistakes.



I would say its more to do with education. Education these days is more about thinking the right way, memorization, and feeling good about yourself rather than learning how to think, and analyze the world around you.



People who rape or assault or perform any other crime deserve punishment. However just saying someone raped you does not mean that the cops should just lock the perpetrator up and throw away the key. There should be a trial. However many situation may end up just being a he said she said thing. Not to say it didn't happen in such cases but if there is no proof then there cant really be much done at that point. Its better To focus on education and responsibility. Two things that have been eroded of late.

It's fine, I just feel sympathy moreso because I can understand if you don't know any other way of living, it's hard for people to get past something so traumatic. I'm one I'll try to help if/when I can, but as you said people need to learn to live their own lives. To do absolutely nothing is not my nature so yeah (-w-)



Yes education can influence how you view the world and can give you more knowledge into certain topics such as what we are discussing as well as what resources are available to you in certain circumstances, but honestly education alone doesn't mean you know better in every day life/situations. Even though I've learned how to perform CPR until I actually did it I realized I knew very little on how to save a life (it's not that hard, but it's definitely stressful and you need a lot of power in your compression). To not get too off track from this, what I am trying to say is even if you are the smartest and brightest, you can still get raped, beaten, battered, assaulted, etc.

I always learned try to be as safe as possible, but at the end of the day no matter how safe and how much you know or try to perceive you can still become a victim or get into a situation that will result in poor outcomes. My friend I mentioned was from a very well off family of a loving couple and even though she went to college and got a great education, that one incident messed her up for life and relationship wise she is a mess. She knows what rape is, how to get help, and what to look out for, but in applied practice she is still lacking.




I'm just putting out my personal view on when a cut and dry victim and perpetrator are known, but life isn't that simple lol. I agree that such things should go through the right channels, but your notion of education and responsibility is a bit ignorant. As I said, you can be very knowledgeable and well off but none of this matters if you don't have any common sense or experience which comes from living life and making mistakes. I feel bad for those that have to go through abuse, because it's something that can affect anyone even if you feel like if couldn't.

Also keep in mind, that rape and abuse don't have to happen initially. Sometimes it is a progression that starts off as something insignificant and can lead to something more severe. I know my mother was in an abusive relationship with her first husband, but it started off as only words and later it lead to action. She was smart and left him after the first hit, but it took her time to realize just how it got to that point. Some people don't realize it that quickly especially when you feel like you love the person; love is a strong emotion that can make all your education meaningless.

I'm probably going to end this topic here since it's digressing from the OP. You can take my words with a grain of salt and if you agree nice and if not it's fine too.

maintenance double post baka (-3-)

There is no magic bullet to deal with the situations you are describing, just that in my opinion teaching people how to think rather than what to think could help them better get out of such situations. Instilling a better sense of responsibility into people could help stop such situations from arising in the first place. Neither will get rid of those situations completely, nothing can, just that in my opinion those are the best methods we have available to us to better the over all situation.

Okay, I'm tired but I'm not going to sleep until I post a response. In short everything you said was nonsense. Rape culture does not exist, it is a lie created by professional feminists because men and women are now equal and professional feminists like Gender Studies professors and women who write books about how terrible women have it (Naiomi Wolf, Marylin French, etc) need to invent a new conflict in order to keep the money flowing.

http://owningyourshit.blogspot.ca/

Encouraging a girl to have another drink is not rape culture. Rape culture would be if on his 14 birthday, a father started giving him son tips on what the best blunt object to use for when he jumps out from the bushes, knocks his first woman over the head and rapes her.

I realize that this is a fact that is ironically often forgotten by present day feminists, but women have a sense of agency. If a man encourages them to have another they are perfectly capable of refusing. Trying to persuade a girl to stay the night is not rape, its persuasion.

Jesus Christ but this really upsets me. It seems as though my whole generation has been convinced that the two genders are at war with one another. And somehow the women of my generation have been convinced that sex is some sort of twisted power struggle, and sex is some sort of horrible debasement and equates to relinquishing personal autonomy to a man. Why the hell can everyone see just how fucked up this point of view is?

Couldn't agree more with you about this 'rape culture' nonsense. It is ridicules to suggest that women don't have any sense of responsibility at a bar for example or in any type of women/male interaction.

She is responsible for herself in a bar.
She is responsible for how many drinks she drinks.
She is responsible for whether she goes home or whether she goes with some guy.

Sure, absolutely if these things are done to her against her will, then i say it is wrong, but just because men buy women free drinks at clubs/bars, doesn't mean she has to drink them.

Simply not true, or care to prove this statement? Show some studies? Where did you learn this information?

On the bottom right of my post there is quote button



Please do



Because it is ridiculously absurd to say most of the earths women who order drinks at bars/clubs have their drinks drugged.

Drugged with what? Alcohol?

It's not up to him to disprove you. You made the claim so its up to you to prove it. You can say something is true but if you don't back it up with facts its meaningless. If you don't have any facts just say "in my opinion" because that's all it really is at that point.

I know this is a pretty old post but I must say that I completely agree with this.

Wow! Someone found this offensive. Huh. Thank you for proving my point.

What point? There is no point, just an ignorant opinion.

>Feminism is a movement of equality

Can people stop saying this when it's not true? You're not egalitarians, never were, and from current attitudes and proposed policies, will never be.

I've already dismantled the stupid "b-but the extremist" argument. Even earliest attempts at policy change were not asking for equality despite not being "extremist". (Tender years doctrine, voting without enlisting, etc. etc.) Feminism at it's best was about promoting awareness about women's issues for social elevation and rights/benefits.

A common thought I see among feminist is "teach men not to rape". Something like that isn't seen as extremist(actually commonly accepted because of the subject-object dichotomy) yet is very misandric and misogynist. Teaches women to look down on men and enforces and idea of paranoia and hysteria. It teaches people (yes men too) not to defend themselves from predators. It erases female rapist and abusers with alienating male victims.

Even though I'm not a Men's Right activist or even an egalitarian(a man is not even equal to himself on certain days) I'd recommend checking out Karen Straughan's work.
https://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat/videos

I can't be assed right now to read all the stuff in this thread, or even most of it, but I want to say that the best definition of feminism that I have heard is, "The desire for equality between the sexes in regard to treatment, both economically and socially." (Well, that's me paraphrasing.)

I think that is the definition everyone should have. Why worry about anything else? Women don't want to be mistreated; therefore, they become "feminists." Men don't want women to be mistreated; therefore, they become "feminists." People pursing the goal of both sexes being treated as fairly as possible. It arose in the past because women couldn't vote or even work the way men do. It still exists today because women often don't get paid the same as men and have to deal with societal pressures that men do not.

Should we not as humans strive to provide equal rights as best we can to all people? Then why is there hatred for the feminists that match the definition above? I consider myself a feminist simply because I wouldn't want my wife or daughter to earn less at a job simply because she has a vagina or be forced to deal with being called a "slut" just because she has sex before marriage. (As a matter of fact, I saw some slut-shaming here on Fakku the other day, which surprised me.)

And just to be clear, I call myself a "feminist" because right now, women have to suffer things that men do not. Strives have to be made to improve the position of women in the world, and people that push such strives are, essentially, "feminists," because they are trying to push women up and put them in an equal position to men.

I realize that a semantic argument can be had regarding the term, and that it can be said that the term "feminism" is not needed, but I find that things are simpler if the term does exist, defined as above, to show that women are not yet equal in our society. Granted, the sexes may never be completely equal, but that does not diminish the fact that great improvements still need to be made in the treatment of women in the modern world.

Attitudes and proposed policies are more about empowering by giving more benefits to outweigh the current issues, I have not seen too many feminist that would defend most those policies once near perfect equality is archived. Empowering quite accelerates the process, but I don't like it too much, I've always been more about slow yet stable processes true to themselves all the way. Of course, for someone who doesn't believe in the equality between men and women and is satisfied by only law similarity the whole thing seems pointless or even evil. Not too much to say as it's truth that such equality is a belief rather than something proved (I'm not gonna use scientific rhetoric against or supporting it, scientific rhetoric isn't science).

As for the "teach to not rape" it isn't about not to rape, it's about to respect females as persons and not objects. While most mens will never rape, a lot of men does harass at some degree because their lacking respect (can be with hate or without it). For example a friend a year ago was with a friend, everything fine and so, then in a blink her friend closed both in a bathroom and started to grope her badly. She said no, no, started to cry and the guy stopped, but there is a need to reach to that point to stop? For her he was (a long time) friend, the guy doesn't have the right to do that without her previous consent! He trough she was flirting him because she was hot, but she didn't ever considered him as something more...

Of course this also applies to gal's touching a guy's cock (or forced kiss or blah) without his consent, but let's be frank, the first problem is still a lot more common than the second (we're going to work in the second trouble when the first begins to happen at a similar rate). At least a quarter of the womans I've meet (more personally) on my life has described me at least one episode like that, and I wouldn't found strange it's quite more common as a lot of gals doesn't like to talk about it (for example a friend was called a whore for confessing getting harassed! It isn't her fault she got harassed, she didn't even was provocative or anything - and even if she were, it isn't her fault -!).

Oh, yeah, the one who groped my friend this time was presuming a success days later on facebook, that she was just being tsundere, (I highly doubt considering how much she cried with me while hugging her and so) nobody believed her because she was hot, the guy getting fists and so, fuck. Luckily she made distance asap, blocked and so, but some victims aren't that logical. So, yeah, you don't need to put by force your D on her V to do a lot of damage, a few inappropriate gropes, attitudes, ways of talk and so are sometimes enough to hurt someone. I'm not even talking about the ever common violence that's also aimed more commonly to gal's.

Would love to say those are friend's experiences alone, but I got quite a few episodes of violence on home (not serious injures, though, but it's really scary) that my brother never received. I've called a whore with hate a lot just because I talk about my sexuality freely and some guys trying to hit on me before knowing I was lesbian were really unrespectful quite often with me (and now you also add the homophobia when they learned I was lesbian). Again, my brother and males friends (most my friends and pals are males) never suffered those things outside school bullyng on the firsts years, not ever a single time I can recall.

Granted, you see a lot of cool guys who fully respect people, and those who may not fully respect everyone, but at least they do with both genders (like my friends). Now, let's make everyone or more people be like that! That's feminism about (and also about making girls seek and expect that from guys).

That idea that a gal should "avoid those bad persons" and holds responsibility when she fails to do is so toxic. Most mens who doesn't respect womens doesn't ever know they doesn't respect them as they don't ever think about it! So they doesn't looks like "evil" or anything until something wrong happens... and that's often too late. Or a gal have the right to wear like she likes, talk about her sexuality as freely as a guy and so, why the can't fucking do that when a men can? To avoid "bad episodes" because you share responsibility JUST because you born with a V rather a D? That's absurd!

Well, actually, I know for some it isn't absurd, on specific for those who doesn't believe on the natural equality (or should be, though I believe it's natural) between men and women and thus getting used to it and adapt around it rather than change it is a must. Would love to say natural equality is a scientific matter, but that would be a lie, at most I would use an useless scientific rhetoric (hence the name, rhetoric isn't science), so, yeah, I can be wrong, egalitarianism can be wrong, but that's what I believe on, just like everyone else have the right to believe on something else about it.

Yeah, other believes holds the believe that you should deal with it and that is. A lot of victims thinks they should just deal with it because that's how the world works and end history, like the friend I talked about that is far from being a feminist. Well, I don't share that! I will fight until that stops happening, and even when I know the process for equality will keep progressing naturally, fighting accelerates it and reduces victims! That's why I consider myself a feminist.

Also I think the whole world should aim strong feminist campaigns on the places of the world where it's lagging, heck, I know we have the country system, but we're citizens of the planet, I think it does matter if someone if suffering even if isn't in the borders of your country.

It's a bit depressing how you're not getting that it's a tactic to shame all men while still saying "FUCK YOU" to those men/boys who did suffer at the hands of someone else (be it man or women, it doesn't matter when it comes to abuse and it's bothers me that you framed it that way).

And no, telling you "not to avoid bad persons" (I wasn't btw) isn't toxic. If I told you to lock your car at night, am I taking part of car theft culture. If I asked you to wear a seat belt when driving am I know promoting "bad driver" culture. You propose to shame men/boys despite them being targets of abuse and violence at higher rates then women/girls instead of encouraging some self determination and empowerment. It's impossible to avoid all problems and not everyone can carry a gun or learn self defense, but having a solution based on only either one is wrong, yours more so than mine.

Also "Most mens don't respect women"? Really?