Double Standard for Age Of Consent?
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ecchigaijin wrote...
Pressuring girls for sex is not the level of manipulation you're talking about when concerning older adults and young teens. A whole other ball park.
Why is it different when it's a male of the same age that is just using a girl for the sex? Break it down and explain.
The thing is, you can't tell teens not to have sex with other teens. You can try, but it doesn't work. You can make a law prohibiting sexual relations between adults and teens, and this should and... in Canada... is done. There is no reason the 15 year old or whatever can't wait until he's 16 to get it on with an older woman. The boy is losing NOTHING by waiting, yet we're putting another layer of protection on potential victims by making him wait.
You can't tell them to not have sex with older people seeing as how it still happens.
It's a non argument, as protecting one teen from abuse from an older woman (it does happen, again, as I mentioned, I've known teens who have gone through it) is more important than however many 13 year olds being able to freely have sex with older women.
Sorry, there are other options. Your sock, your female classmate your own age, etc. The protection of those who need it is just too high to deem it irrelevant compared to your thing for older women.
Sorry, there are other options. Your sock, your female classmate your own age, etc. The protection of those who need it is just too high to deem it irrelevant compared to your thing for older women.
You keep dodging my question about why you didn't bring that up days ago. It sounds like you just made that up on the spot.
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You can't STOP children from having sex with children. You CAN stop them from having sex with adults. Canada is. Other countries are working on it. It is and should be done. There is no reason why the young teens MUST have sex with adults, and many reasons why these said teens should be protected.
As for what you think I made up on the spot, what do I care what you think, you think giving teen males more options for having sex is somehow more important than protecting the few male victims of older women that do exist. It shows your value system is incredibly skewed, so you thinking less of me... really does nothing.
As for what you think I made up on the spot, what do I care what you think, you think giving teen males more options for having sex is somehow more important than protecting the few male victims of older women that do exist. It shows your value system is incredibly skewed, so you thinking less of me... really does nothing.
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ecchigaijin wrote...
You can't STOP children from having sex with children. You CAN stop them from having sex with adults. Canada is. Other countries are working on it. It is and should be done. There is no reason why the young teens MUST have sex with adults, and many reasons why these said teens should be protected.We really can't stop them from fooling around with adults either, 14% of females and 5% of males had those relationships as their first sexual experience.
http://www.adph.org/ALPHTN/assets/503handouts.pdf (page 2)
Note: That it is talking only talking about first sex. Also, considering that around 90% of violent rapes go unreported, it's obvious that statutory rape goes even more unreported thus is extremely common despite the law being against it. Oh and you never explained why it's not the same level of manipulation.
As for what you think I made up on the spot, what do I care what you think, you think giving teen males more options for having sex is somehow more important than protecting the few male victims of older women that do exist. It shows your value system is incredibly skewed, so you thinking less of me... really does nothing.
It's just that situations like those are so uncommon that for you to know multiple examples of them and bringing them days later into the discussion makes your claim sound rather dubious.
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Count Alucard wrote...
1)We really can't stop them from fooling around with adults either, 14% of females and 5% of males had those relationships as their first sexual experience.
http://www.adph.org/ALPHTN/assets/503handouts.pdf (page 2)
Note: That it is talking only talking about first sex. Also, considering that around 90% of violent rapes go unreported, it's obvious that statutory rape goes even more unreported thus is extremely common despite the law being against it. Oh and you never explained why it's not the same level of manipulation.
2)It's just that situations like those are so uncommon that for you to know multiple examples of them and bringing them days later into the discussion makes your claim sound rather dubious.
1) Yes, so we should give up on protecting the young altogether. Lowering the AOC isn't going to the young any safer. I don't understand the "we can't stop it from happening altogether" as an excuse to remove laws working to protect the young.
2) How do you know it is so rare? Through online surveys from people who, even though anonymous, are unlikely to report such things? Through your local friends, who, identity known, are even LESS likely? Your numbers from the web do nothing to actually prove anything, just prove how many young men are likely to admit they had sex with an older woman that was unwanted.
But again, sure, websites say so, so it must be absolute. It's a rare case, and I can't possibly know any. There aren't any forced sex situations from women on males that wouldn't show up in a survey...
For goodness sake, people lie about their INCOME when anonymous, never mind more personal shit. I just don't see how these surveys even apply. Try bringing them to any government anywhere and using them to lower the AOC. I'll be waiting to hear the laughter.
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ecchigaijin wrote...
1) Yes, so we should give up on protecting the young altogether. Lowering the AOC isn't going to the young any safer. I don't understand the "we can't stop it from happening altogether" as an excuse to remove laws working to protect the young.
2) How do you know it is so rare? Through online surveys from people who, even though anonymous, are unlikely to report such things? Through your local friends, who, identity known, are even LESS likely? Your numbers from the web do nothing to actually prove anything, just prove how many young men are likely to admit they had sex with an older woman that was unwanted.
But again, sure, websites say so, so it must be absolute. It's a rare case, and I can't possibly know any. There aren't any forced sex situations from women on males that wouldn't show up in a survey...
For goodness sake, people lie about their INCOME when anonymous, never mind more personal shit. I just don't see how these surveys even apply. Try bringing them to any government anywhere and using them to lower the AOC. I'll be waiting to hear the laughter.
1)You said that we shouldn't outlaw teens from having sex with each other because we can't stop them. However, the same can indeed be said about them having sex with adults, which you think should be outlawed. I merely pointed out a flaw in the basis of your argument.
2)Do you have anything better to go by then? Even without the survey, common sense should tell you that. There is also the other factor that makes your claim dubious and that it took you so long to bring it up.
Happy New Year!
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Count Alucard wrote...
ecchigaijin wrote...
1) Yes, so we should give up on protecting the young altogether. Lowering the AOC isn't going to the young any safer. I don't understand the "we can't stop it from happening altogether" as an excuse to remove laws working to protect the young.
2) How do you know it is so rare? Through online surveys from people who, even though anonymous, are unlikely to report such things? Through your local friends, who, identity known, are even LESS likely? Your numbers from the web do nothing to actually prove anything, just prove how many young men are likely to admit they had sex with an older woman that was unwanted.
But again, sure, websites say so, so it must be absolute. It's a rare case, and I can't possibly know any. There aren't any forced sex situations from women on males that wouldn't show up in a survey...
For goodness sake, people lie about their INCOME when anonymous, never mind more personal shit. I just don't see how these surveys even apply. Try bringing them to any government anywhere and using them to lower the AOC. I'll be waiting to hear the laughter.
1)You said that we shouldn't outlaw teens from having sex with each other because we can't stop them. However, the same can indeed be said about them having sex with adults, which you think should be outlawed. I merely pointed out a flaw in the basis of your argument.
2)Do you have anything better to go by then? Even without the survey, common sense should tell you that. There is also the other factor that makes your claim dubious and that it took you so long to bring it up.
Happy New Year!
1) There's little flaw there. Kids have every reason to be with other kids. Not every child has every reason to be with any given adult, so the relationship can - and is - easier to spot if people are watching. And in any given culture, as long as there are busybodies... someone's watching. And they will be a lot more likely to ask questions about a kid with an adult than a kid with another kid.
2) Common sense tells you something so that makes it fact? Oh, dear. You have no experience with males who have been victims of relationships with an older woman, online surveys seem to indicate the same, they certainly aren't speaking out, so... it doesn't exist. Common sense would dictate a lot of things that happen in today's society wouldn't happen. I brought it up when it had direct relevance to my point at the time.
Whatever - again, you do believe, you don't believe, it doesn't bother me. Go on believing the numbers are astronomically low, and that victims of this type of relationship don't really exist.
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ecchigaijin wrote...
1) There's little flaw there. Kids have every reason to be with other kids. Not every child has every reason to be with any given adult, so the relationship can - and is - easier to spot if people are watching. And in any given culture, as long as there are busybodies... someone's watching. And they will be a lot more likely to ask questions about a kid with an adult than a kid with another kid.
That's a double edged sword argument for numerous reasons. Firstly, its not like they MUST have sex with someone their own age and as I pointed out a lot of teenage boys are in relationships with teenage girls just to pressure them for sex. Secondly, so what if its less likely to be questioned? People are far less likely to ask questions about an older woman with a teenage male. But instead view the male as lucky and there are legitimate reasons in thinking so. Plus, how is easier to catch them having sex?
2) Common sense tells you something so that makes it fact? Oh, dear. You have no experience with males who have been victims of relationships with an older woman, online surveys seem to indicate the same, they certainly aren't speaking out, so... it doesn't exist. Common sense would dictate a lot of things that happen in today's society wouldn't happen.
Dude, when the news reports a teenage male having sex with attractive older women most guys call him lucky. Why? As I pointed out earlier the most common sexual regret among males is not being sexual adventurous during youth(means teen years). Me and every male I know would have loved to have sex with an attractive older women at 13, 14, and 15. Why? As males we usually have far higher sex drives than most women because evolution is telling us to reproduce with as many females as possible. Lets not be politically correct about this, the survey is more than likely accurate.
I brought it up when it had direct relevance to my point at the time.
Your point was relevant when I first mentioned the manipulation aspect which was on the 26th of December. You didn't brought up your examples until 3 days into the discussion. If they did happened logically someone would have brought it up right away.
Whatever - again, you do believe, you don't believe, it doesn't bother me. Go on believing the numbers are astronomically low, and that victims of this type of relationship don't really exist.
That is kind of an oxymoron, If I believe its low than I that means I do be believe that there are victims out there. But considering the reason why we ignore teens having sex teens is because its likely be less manipulative, it would logical have a double standard. One where we ignore teenage males having sex with older females as we do when its with a female their own age. Since the former scenario is far less likely to involve manipulation for sex than the latter scenario. That is my position and this is what the law was at one point but PC changed that obviously to pander to feminist.(Read between pages 8-9)
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Whatever.
Seriously, you just want to use the "lucky" card to avoid the manipulated, damaged ones. You have no source other than internet surveys "which are, to be politically correct, most likely right" - well, you got facts on your side there!
And what you're arguing FOR is opening the door to more manipulation of the young by older women, which is more EASILY attainable than teen on teen pressure.
If you don't get that, fine, but I'm done bothering with your round and round the mulberry bush. You think that the majority of young males that would enjoy sex with an older woman are more important than the minority of those that get psychologically and emotionally damaged by being coerced/manipulated into a relationship with one.
I believe the protection of the ones who need it is more important than opening up the options for who a teen male can and can not have sex with.
You don't care much about the protection of those, or dismiss it altogether.
Fine. But continuing this back and forth isn't going to get you to understand my view, and I certainly, having the viewpoint of a parent and having been a young teen, and having spoken with young males who suffered as a part of said relationships, am able to see the situation from more points of view than you are.
But, you got your surveys. Don't worry, I won't be replying, your continual ignoring of the people who need protection is pretty obvious.
Seriously, you just want to use the "lucky" card to avoid the manipulated, damaged ones. You have no source other than internet surveys "which are, to be politically correct, most likely right" - well, you got facts on your side there!
And what you're arguing FOR is opening the door to more manipulation of the young by older women, which is more EASILY attainable than teen on teen pressure.
If you don't get that, fine, but I'm done bothering with your round and round the mulberry bush. You think that the majority of young males that would enjoy sex with an older woman are more important than the minority of those that get psychologically and emotionally damaged by being coerced/manipulated into a relationship with one.
I believe the protection of the ones who need it is more important than opening up the options for who a teen male can and can not have sex with.
You don't care much about the protection of those, or dismiss it altogether.
Fine. But continuing this back and forth isn't going to get you to understand my view, and I certainly, having the viewpoint of a parent and having been a young teen, and having spoken with young males who suffered as a part of said relationships, am able to see the situation from more points of view than you are.
But, you got your surveys. Don't worry, I won't be replying, your continual ignoring of the people who need protection is pretty obvious.
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ecchigaijin wrote...
the "lucky" card
You're dodging the evolution and sexual regret part which points to the study being spot on.
And what you're arguing FOR is opening the door to more manipulation of the young by older women, which is more EASILY attainable than teen on teen pressure.
If you don't get that, fine, but I'm done bothering with your round and round the mulberry bush. You think that the majority of young males that would enjoy sex with an older woman are more important than the minority of those that get psychologically and emotionally damaged by being coerced/manipulated into a relationship with one.
If you don't get that, fine, but I'm done bothering with your round and round the mulberry bush. You think that the majority of young males that would enjoy sex with an older woman are more important than the minority of those that get psychologically and emotionally damaged by being coerced/manipulated into a relationship with one.
Sure, we can agree to disagree but can you please back that statement up. Because I'm pretty sure peer pressure is far more attainable based on this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3384737/Teenage-boys-say-it-is-acceptable-to-pressure-girls-into-sex.html
Plus, you just admitted that the majority of young males would enjoy sex with older women. So the conclusion would be that manipulation in such relationships is far less prevalent than teen-on-teen sexual pressure. Also, coercion=/=manipulation
I believe the protection of the ones who need it is more important than opening up the options for who a teen male can and can not have sex with.
You don't care much about the protection of those, or dismiss it altogether.
You don't care much about the protection of those, or dismiss it altogether.
If you're all about protection then why aren't you against teens having sex with teens? It can have(and often does) the same issues as with an older person. It seems that your stance is on morality rather than rationality and if that is the case there is no need to mask it.
But, you got your surveys. Don't worry, I won't be replying, your continual ignoring of the people who need protection is pretty obvious.
Your concession is accepted.