Male Privilege

I must agree. It was was inappropriate to say something like that.

This is a place for discussion. Even if you disagree with the things that were said (and you have every right to AND you have the right to say so) there are much better ways to express your displeasure. When you start a conversation with hate, you can lose support even from people who agree with you.

I would also add that there are times when discussion will be fruitless. Sometimes you cannot reach an agreement because one of both sides have an overwhelming concern or preconceived that makes discussion hard. You can try clarifying your point and explaining yourself first to test the waters. I won't lie that there are times when I feel frustrated that I can't just mind swap so that we can understand each other.

If a point of mutual agreement cannot be reached then you always have the choice to walk away. Why might you want to do that? I can give you a concrete example.When I say I am a feminist, people automatically assume I look like this:
The men who have been exposed to the "tumblr feminists" feel just as scared as the women who have been exposed to the "bitch-get-me-a-sammich" men. You feel hurt because you someone will not even listen to yo because of what you look like. That is an incredible horrible thing to do to a person. We are, generally, a social species. To be ostracized is not a normal state. We can live like that, some may even prefer it, but it's not what our society encourages (hence the forever alone stereotype).

Just like scared animals, humans have a tendency to lash out when hurt. Like my husband, they learn that certain words and phrases can quickly send them in to "offense is the best defense" mode. Then, after all that build up, I come along following my definition of feminist:


I don't want to subvert men, punish men, hate men. I like men. I married one. I'm related to several. I was to live with and love my men like I live with and love my women. However, because of exposure to these terrible "I hate men" straw feminists, (the notion of which is encouraged by the misogynists to get more support for their cause) men react to me rather like I pointed a shotgun at their penis.

I'm incredibly lucky to live in a time that allows me most if not all the privileges of men. (So I can't be the pope. I don't want to be the pope.) I'm going to be a doctor in 2 years. 20-30 years ago this would have divided my family. Now? I make every last one of them proud. I'm not saying that there aren't still haters out there. I've met plenty of men who honestly believe that my becoming a doctor is really unacceptable. (My favorite quote was: "And your husband allows you to go to school so far away?!... If you were my wife I would have forbid it, no matter what degree you're earning!")

TLDR: What I am saying is the only way to get rid of these few women/men hating holdouts is to work together to say: THIS ISN'T RIGHT. When we start blaming each other, we lose the power of standing up in a group. That's why you shouldn't hold a discussion with hate. It hurts your cause, my cause and our cause.

^^
This made me smile a lot and really made my night. Good luck with the doctor thing! :)

So on to the answering of questions originally posted...

There is a lot of pull both ways.

There are a lot of women (I've noticed) who think/live in a very hypocritical manner, such as, we're in an open relationship but you (the partner) are not allowed to find someone else while I can find whoever I want. Men are socially allowed to screw around more without being called sluts or whores while if women are to do the same they are called all manner of nasty things. You guys can't argue this with me, there are tons of comments even on this site calling fictional girls these things based on promiscuous situations while the guys in the stories get off as 'manly men' or 'showing her what for!' I do have problems with women who don't get paid the same as men, but don't do the same amount of work in the same position. I feel that if women were getting paid more to do less work that would be unfair. You should get paid to do your damn job based on your ability to get your work done not your sex.

I also think that a lot of the things we are force fed by the media don't help to actually set forth true equality either. It is not often (if at all) where you see a woman who is independent and doesn't need a man to survive, especially one who doesn't have a negative/hateful relationship with the men around her. Men are always shown pining over the most gorgeous girl and then complaining she's a bitch when she doesn't go out with them. What the hell's up with that?

I'm not a fan of the femme-nazis (they were discussed previously, pretty sure). They only spread hatred of the masculine sex and that's not fair. Not all men are idiots, assholes, or chauvinistic pigs and it's not right to treat all men like they are. It's also not right that just because they are born with male parts that they should feel like they're monsters. They're not monsters and deserve to be treated with respect and kindness not animosity and hate. (It should go the same for men to females, etc.)It should be noted that there IS a difference between feminists and the femme-nazis. True feminists don't want men to be lower than women they want the sexes to be equal (ALL sexes). Neither of the sexes should be put on a pedestal higher than the other.


Sometimes it just depends on what you're looking into. For example...I like medieval reenactment, but it's hard for me to get any of the guys to take me seriously as a fighter because I'm a girl. Although I am interested in it and try to make time to get my gear together I am constantly ignored or pushed to the side because I'm not a boy. When one of the new guys joined they had him geared up in under half a year. I've been attempting to get stuff together for two years and still am missing a helmet (they made him one, nice right?) I don't hate the new guy they helped out, he's a nice guy and definitely deserved the help to get started, however it's not exactly fair to me. The guys are decent guys, but it's obvious they don't care to help me fight because I'm a girl. *sarcasm* He's a boy he must be a better fighter right? *end sarcasm*


It's also really hard for me that I'm not taken seriously because I have a cute face and big blue eyes. I would just like respect and there are quite a few times where I don't get it.

I AM very happy to say though that as I've gotten older it seems as if things have gotten better. It may just be that I have surrounded myself with people that view men and women equally in actuality instead of just saying it. (It's the little things that matter~)

On a side note... as I read more of the posts I noticed that those (who I'm guessing are men based on their choice of words) became more bitter and angry. I was sad to see this thread bristling with tension and bitterness. The posts became nasty towards those who are supportive to the (actual) feminist cause. I do hope that everyone (on both sides of the discussion) can take a deep breath so we can discuss this more without the bitterness. :)

All in all this post is written kind of poorly and I apologize. I really should go to bed and stop editing what I want to say hundreds of times. Also, sorry if I come off like a narcissist with the "cute face, blue eyes" part, there really wasn't a better way I could think of to write that.

or people just standing up for themselves and choosing to
FIGHT OR DIE for their rights and freedoms
the world in general tried to make me bend over backwards hell it wanted me to do a fucking 360 backflip but I choose to fight I choose that if anyone tried to take from me I would fight them hunt them and even be ready TO KILL!
I guess you can say guys have the physical strength to decide not to submit to others but you can NEVER say we are "privileged" that no one trys to control us
a desire for power is a greed that corrupts a lot of people and ANYONE can be a victim to that it just depends on the person wiether they submit or stand up and scream "FUCK YOU!" with a fist blade or gun in hand!

Aw....Thank you!


This is exactly my point. I really hate this battle of the sexes stuff.One side having a problem does not invalidate the other side having a problem. We both have problems and we can all be the solution for each other. When we argue too much, we lose sight of how we can help each other.That's what makes me sad.

Gotten to the point where there is no arguing, it's a matter of "I ONLY WANT WHAT I BELIEVE IN" in a good number of people nowadays.

There is unfortunately a lot of negativity directed towards men since women are taught that they should be afraid of men and that men are only out to degrade/rape them. It is also very unfortunate that men cannot simply talk to a girl without her thinking that she is in danger.

We need to work towards teaching women that they shouldn't have to fear men and that they can have a conversation without fear.

The only people who say "they're playing the victim" are people who don't have to worry about that type of thing lol. In other words, if you say that, it's because you've never been a victim. That is one example of the privilege we receive. You guys may be thinking of privilege wrong when you consider whether or not you have it. It is not "special treatment," rather it is the lack of negative special treatment that other demographics receive because of their sex/race/orientation.

Secondly, y'all really should get educated. Having a chat about sexism with your male friends one night at TGI Fridays while you waited for your food to arrive is not sufficient to give you real insight on the subject.


Think about this: was America not created for white men, by white men?

I heard from a few teachers in college that men still get paid a bigger salary than women in some fields of work. Not sure if I should take this with a grain of salt since the teachers who told me that were women.

OKAY! So I understand that women might in general feel more threatened when they walk around at night. Or they might be more careful in dealing with certain men, yeah it bugs me that a guy can be called a creeper or someone to fear without ever intending anything harmful(It's happened to me at one point)

But what exactly are feminists expecting ME to do about it? I can't make guys stop catcalling, they have a freedom of speech. Short of becoming Batman, I can't stop the violent men at night from harming people. I want to hear from the feminists on this one. Just three questions:

1. Given that a man understands and accepts ACTUAL gender inequalities as real, what is he supposed to do about it when it is based on something beyond his control?Like say with catcalling or violent crimes. You could say something like "don't blame the victim" but simply sympathizing won't make the problem go away. You could say to stop it when I see it but to be honest I couldn't count the number of times I've seen catcalling or groping in one hand. I have never been a personal witness to a rape. And I'm not about to be Batman. I got too little time or money for that.

2. If feminism is about gender equality, then why is it that most feminists on here(most arguments I've seen from feminists in fact) have been asking men to focus mainly on problems that women face? Most of the citation on men's issues by feminists here(Props to the ones that went that extra mile) is in a "You got problems too" way. I prefer the egalitarian stance myself. I get that as most feminists are women they usually relate to problems women face but damn... I have yet too see feminists rallying for an issue concerning men's rights at all. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I could be wrong. Just speaking from experience.
Hell, most of the discussion in this thread has been about each gender trying to prove why they have it worse while dismissing the other's arguments altogether. Or even going further and making strawman arguments all over the place.

3. Rather than posting a link, can you name 5 or more privileges a man has over a woman...THAT HE COULD CHANGE? So the fact that men are biologically stronger on average and thus usually are less threatened by the presence of a woman isn't one. Give me something I can do something about. Some action I can take.

Bonus Question: What are some double standards or gender inequalities you recognize that favor women?

No one is going to shoot you for jaywalking or smoking next to a public entrance. If you respond to being fined for such an activity by assaulting an officer and then resisting arrest, you are committing three separate acts of crime. If you end up getting killed because of this, it's not because you were jaywalking, it's because you were:

1.) Assaulting a police officer.
2.) Resisting arrest.
3.) A fucking idiot.

Likewise, if you are being arrested by a SWAT team and resist, then end up getting shot and killed, the causation is not because you didn't pay your taxes but because you resisted arrest and in some way ended up threatening the lives of a team of SWAT members. They are different crimes with different penalties, making a correlation between not paying your taxes and death caused by putting the lives of others at risk is irrational and unfair.

Sometimes reaching an agreement isn't what one person wants. I personally want people to acknowledge that "male privilege" is just stupid hateful term coined by gender idealogues who only sexism as a bad thing if it doesn't a woman’s sense of entitlement.



WELL SHIT, ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE IS NOW A CONCRETE EXAMPLE. Also great job at strawmaning everyone who has a distaste for most forms of "feminism". I could easily claim that everyone sees me as a women beating misogynist when I saw I'm not a feminist, or that people straight up laught at my face when I say Misandry(even google's spell check doesn't believe it's a real word) is real and a huge problem.





Except the hate and vilification of one side isn't stuck to the repository of the internet. Heck we even had plenty of "Men can stop rape" flyers and movents in the US. The president took part in a domestic violence awareness ad where they pretty much put the blame on men and the responsibility of it ending on men.



Or because you're not part of the victim class, or maybe because you disagree? Either way I agree that it sucks when people completely disregard you.



There are many things that can define someone as a feminist, which is why a textbook definition will always fail. There's no distinction between let's say something like a feminist who doesn't approve of the slut walk and one who does. Heck, I myself don't identify myself as a feminist, but I can fit under it according to some.



That's no different from a misogynist who claims to love women but views them as incapable of having agency..woops, did I say misogynist? I meant feminist.




This would imply that there's a larger movement of "misogynists" out there or that anyone who sees this bullshit and decides to distant themselves is a misogynist.



It's becoming harder and harder going through this wall of text.



That sucks but at the same time I don't know their full motivation for saying this. They could have easily meant that they're afraid of being so far away from their significant other and not that they believe that women shouldn't pursue any profession they want.



Sometimes it's extremely apparent that most feminist are part of the problem. Not saying that there isn't actually problems for women these days(especially in most 3rd world and developing countries, not so much in the west), but at the same time you're not immune from criticism.

Said the 13 year old posting on a internet forum for the first time.

fuck off Cormac quit being a stalking bitch
we have different views you don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you its not a fucking law you piece of shit
so if you don't like what I say that's fine but quit stalking me
I bet your just looking to start a fight online because we both know you would never win one irl

Unfair? Using subjective terms for the basis of your argument is disengenous at best. You can keep redefining the definition of what is "unfair" to suit your argument and frustrate your opponent. It makes you seem like a whiny child when you use "unfair" are part of an argument. If that's the best you can do, quit wasting my time. I also find it amusing for you calling transitive law "irrational" when it's a cornerstone of mathematics and logic.

Back to paying taxes:

If I broke into your home and robbed you with the intent of selling the property I stole for money. Is this wrong? The general concensus would be yes because we're all taught it's wrong to steal. The concept of private property is a cornerstone of western law.

If I was to change the scenario a little bit, what if I broke into your house, etc but, the money I made from selling the stolen goods was meant to pay for my cancer treatment? Is it still wrong? What if it was to pay for a child's cancer treatment? To feed the homeless? To fund a feminists campaign against domestic violence around the world? To donate to N.P.R? What about a campaign to feed starving Africans?

The point is this; stealing from someone regardless of how "noble" the intentions is still theft and it's wrong from a modern moral and ethical standpoint. Yet, when governments committ such actions, it's considered justified. Why the arbitrary distinction? I am unsure.

Now, for your scenario; If I jaywalked who have I hurt? Nobody, I endangered myself but, isn't that my right if I own myself? I should be permitted to make decisions relative to my body if I'm not hurting another person? Same argument pro-choice people make for abortion "My body, my choice".

You could argue that I endangered others by creating a situtation where other people could be killed and cause tens of thousands of dollars in property damages. Can you really justify a penalty for the potential threat of causing harm? If so, then how can anyone get behind the wheel of a vehicle since that causes a severe increase in potential dangers for others.

Such arbitary distinctions have lead countries to be inundated with asinine laws like the U.S's ban of the sale of raw milk or the ban on "Kinder Surprise" with the potential fine per egg quoted as high as US$2,500.

Cutting off half of the argument you're criticizing then calling it flawed isn't a good way to start your own argument.

Oh and I did not explictly say drivers so you took the liberty to put words in my mouth to further justify your own argument. That's a bad sign when you have to distort your opponent to make a point.

Care to try again?

The argument was pointing out how arbitrary the "potential damages" argument is.

Everytime you get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle you can potentially cause property damage or kill someone.

Every time you plug in an electrical appliance you could potentially electricute someone or cause a fire.

"Potential" is not the same as actually causing damages. Once actual damage has been caused the person who created those damages owes their victim compensation for this damages.

There is really an arbitrary difference if I walk between some white lines and if I *Gasp* walked 5 inches or 5 feet outside those lines.