Male Privilege

So yeah, I got in this argument with a feminist on youtube(forgive my stupidity), and she was trying to make points, rather, she was stating that men had more privileges than women. Now, I plainly disagreed. I don't really see how men achieve any privilege, since I sure as hell don't receive any special treatment. I also doubt that anyone outside the 1% receive any form of treatment that is better than a women, and I infact believe that it is the other way around.

Now, this could juts be an ideal that I've developed in ignorance, and perhaps I live in the bubble where men do not receive any form of privilege, while the others around this country are living it large.

So I ask you your opinions, do men get it better than women, or is it the other way around? Who's the group that gets the special treatment? Men, women, or is it not so much a matter of gender, as it is a matter of being rich or poor?

Sounds like the usual Ad hominem attack made by "neo-feminists".

In truth, women (correction, I refer more to "neo-feminists" when I mention women) gain privileges more then a man would. Or at least, that's what they wish to gain, as it would seem. I could go into a long, detailed, highly thought out rant about that, but I'm both too tired, and too lazy at the moment to do so. All I can say is that while their are some bias to women in general areas, such as the work place and such, at the same time, it seems many (that is, "women") would like those same standards, without the responsibilities or work that comes with it. Is this true for all women? No, of course not. Am I saying they shouldn't get those standards? No, of course they should have them.

However, I think Bill Burr, as crazy as he can be, I love the guy, made a great comment on the matter, that went something along the lines of; If you want the same wages, treatment, and benefits that come with anything, you better be right there with me when the Titanic sinks, with the Cello guy as he's playing his tune. (Video mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlR6CdJtRWM )

The woman I was arguing with sent me this list. Funny thing is that it was made in the 1990's.

That list is still extremely salient, even now.

Male privilege is the luxury not to have to realize that as one's reality. :|

EDIT: For the minus reppers, I explain all this in the next post, btw...

This is probably what the person was talking about. Most of those so called "privileges" don't even exist and are merely perceived by some feminists seeking to manufacture a victim complex, marginalize men and to keep themselves relevant.

(I realize the second link is a blog but, he still walks through the argument by dissecting the manufacturing of victims)



It's nice to see such a lie getting dusted off and placed on the podium every now an again. Let's examine just what the political utility of this lie is. In short, “check your privilege” is a highly effective method of silencing men. By telling men, or when men reject the lie, telling everyone else that men are privileged, a feminist can render their voice mute. For example a man complaining that “stop violence against women” ignores the fact that men, rather than women, are the majority of violent crime victims – but a simple utterance of “check your privilege” renders any man’s complaint void. What he says doesn’t matter, he’s male and privileged and we can all move along and redirect resources to female victims. This has been so effective that for decades gender ideologues and robotic conformists to the status quo continue to use it.

Let me assure you, for most of the world (some women in positions of enough influence/power/affluence combined with ability/race/class, avoid them), privilege exists.

There are many different kinds of privilege, including but not limited to, sex/gender, sexual preference, race/perceived race, class, and ability (both mental and physical) privileges.
For example, as a white, straight, middle class, woman with an able body and mind, I in SO FUCKING MANY WAYS have, from the start, advantages and perceived capabilities to people in power that say, someone who is transsexual, bisexual, a person of color, disabled, and working class, likely can dream to attain.

To deny that the factors we have little/no control over (with the exception of class in some rare cases of upward mobility and acceptance) influence our mobility in society is just ignorant.

First define privilege, then prove to everyone that it's a definite thing.

Because it just seems to me that you're throwing buzzwords around.

:|

Read the above post.

While that list may hold some truth to it, on the flip side of this argument, there's many situations, attitudes, and general thinking that's unfair or biased towards men. I am neither saying, nor arguing that any biases or unfair treatment isn't real, but at the same time, what these debates don't seem to take into account is that bias and unfair treatment happens on both ends of the genders, AND that while all deserve equal treatment and rights, there are those who would rather use there gender as an excuse for they're weaknesses rather then realize that the fault really does lay with them. This goes for both genders.

If the gender feminists admitted that, then their misandristic movement would be exposed and nobody would take them seriously anymore. Their entire portion of the overall movement requires a perceptual victim hood to make "progress" for their end goals which is not equality for both genders but, dominance over men. This is revealed when you hear some feminists spout off about reducing the male population to 10% of the overall population or about "national castration day" which is so outrageous I still think it's a hoax.

Can you point out any point on the list first mentioned ( http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/ ) ?

The only ones I can see being even swayed to even ground are 13 (due to the invasive nature of modern news media), 16 (to most extents, though some conservative persons teach otherwise), 26 (this one, at least in the second part, is a little off as well, men's bodies tend to have less variation in curves, and rather vary in overall size), and 34 (some men change names, if few).

Could you point out which you find untrue, please?


As to "national castration day", Penguin... I read plenty of contemporary feminist and activist sources, and have never heard mention of that. Either it's the work of extreme radicals or satire, I'd guess.

5, 14, 36
Are all true.
18 is full of shit.
27 is pointless.
Don't know how 41 has anything to do with privilege. Maybe it's the privilege of having people automatically assume what I want or what pleases me, and making me their prime targets for their advertisement?
42 is hilarious.
43 is plain wrong.

If I did decide to go through and point out any (even the slightest) incorrect statement, you and I both know that it would end with me being "wrong in some way, and here's why". I will generally admit, that some of those are true, and that it's not right for it to be that way, but not all are, and you've given a (though slight) example without me having to.

I'm not saying you're wrong, nor was it my point or belief (nor did I make it (I think..) seem that way) that to say everything on that list is complete BS, because unfair treatment and gender inequality isn't so black and white as people, generally [neo]feminists, tend to paint it. I'm sure you'd have a similar opinion if I were to come up with some sort of "Women Privilege Checklist". It's easy to say, "Well, Men are privileged, they have everything already by the looks of it, and here's a nice list to prove it too.", instead of saying, "We both have it hard in ways, lets work on fixing them together so we both can stand on equal ground."

Anything to do with jobs and hiring is simple. The internet. Online you are not a face, you're not a gender, you are a name and list of credentials. How am I to tell if the person who's resume I am reviewing is male or female with a name like Alex Stanton, or Jamie Fredrick. So you are judged on your credentials and not your sex.

As for the actual work place, you want to talk about sexual harassment, what about that promotion you just got, or that bonus you got because you leave the top button or 2 on your shirt undone to look sexy. You get so many more privilages because you can exploit the base male brain to get what you want. THAT IS SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

Just look at that stupid list, take an item like number 8:
8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

And honestly tell me how teaching someone to be safe counts as male privilage. It's like saying:

"On average, I am tought to fear jumping into the grand canyon much less than my female counterparts are."

You'd have to be a complete nut to believe that is male privilage. I'm sorry to inform you but being to stupid to realize that you might die is not a privalge.

18 is not full of shit, and I have a resource to show that. Right now I am working to locate it again, so I will edit it in ASAP. Sorry. http://www.pbs.org/speak/speech/prejudice/women/
YES IT IS A *FEW* years old, but studies like these are ongoing elsewhere.

27 is mostly still relevant. In high profile professional workplaces, women are expected to (and often company policy dictates) dress up more, wear (any, as opposed to the male "none") makeup of some sort even if neutral colored, and maintain a standard of appearance not often expected to be upheld (even if expected in rule) of male coworkers.

41 has to do with constantly seeing your own gender being presented as mere eycandy and even (sometimes disembodied, or fragmented in cropping) images of your sex's body on display, made to appeal to a demographic that is not you and perpetuates the idea of you only as such, in some circles.
"Women's" media, and other non-straight-male-catering media, is seen as the other. That is the privilege here.
Of course, this is also due to marketing, but in a large part it impacts females negatively to constantly see impossible or even dangerous images they are meant to aspire to: for more info, I recommend the continually-updating documentary/series "Killing Us Softly".

42 is still highly true: how many fat, major female CEOs/high-grossing celebrities (and yes, this is slightly changing)/politicians/actresses/public figures can you name from recent headlines? How many males?

43 is going on statistics of domestic and relationship abuse that continue to remain skewed even today. Yes, women most certainly abuse partners, but it is less common by far.

I want to quote this because it is rediculous.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/89-503-x/2010001/article/11475-eng.htm

"Women and girls comprise just over half of Canada’s population. In 2010, 17.2 million females accounted for 50.4% of the total population, continuing a slim female majority that has held for over three decades (Table 1). In the data recorded from 1921 to 1971, the percentage of males was slightly higher than that of females. In 1921, 48.5% of the population was female, rising to 49.8% in 1971. Over the past century, gains in life expectancy have benefited women more than men. Lower mortality rates for females throughout most of the life course contributed to a slightly higher share of females than males in the population. According to the medium-growth scenario of the most recent population projections, the female majority would continue for the next 50 years."

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

"
Female persons, percent, 2011

50.8%"


This is something very important to note, women make up the majority even if slightly in both canada and the united states. The MAJORITY in DEMOCRACY is what gives people power. If women really wanted to have more female CEOs and more female politicians, then they would use their majority and their money to do so, but they don't. That is not male privilage, don't push your own decisions on men.

As for that last point, it's fair to say that women are usually the initiators in most domestic disputes and won't get taken in for questioning(sometimes they're told go directly for the male, regardless of who called for help). If a the male partner bruises her, even in an attempt to defend himself, he's still seen as guilty, not only by the courts, but society in general.

As for 42, I think it's hilarious because what was pointed out is the least of someone's worries. I'm 100% certain this was written by a female, and she's basing this completely on her experience. It's not a one way street, and honestly although I'm not the definition of fit I would pressure someone to try and be healthier(if they were close friends/family).
Although I would certainly love to see the statistics that prove fat/obese/overweight men make less than their equally large female counterparts.

As for 18, if boys do receive more help from teachers, how is this a sign of privilege. If anything is just points out boys are more likely to get assistance because more than likely boys are likely to do worse. I'm saying it's bullshit because it doesn't prove the existence of privilege.

For 14, I want to ask how that is considered a privilege? I mean, so I get to know that mos of the people in government are male, how does that affect me in any positive way? The governments already screwing me over, what make a woman think that's a good thing?

...you can't simply vote a CEO into power.

Know why so many women are graduating from professional training and not getting the jobs they trained for?
Men hold the high ranking jobs that control hiring, in many fields, particularly STEM (Sci, Tech, Eng, and Math). There is no "pipeline" to give women entry to higher ranks in that sense. They can learn all they wish but will remain on lower levels unless someone, more often female, in their field pushes them through on their shared merit.



Dragon, this one is also an issue of pipeline, as well as male opponents using the classic sexist tones in campaigning that a female opponent would be less competent in the same position, merely due to the fact she is female/married/has kids/etc.



On the first paragraph: sorry but unless you have a very androgynous name, that's a big indicator right before they even READ your resume.
Also, have you never been to a job interview? They tend to SEE you.

As to the work place... you actually beleive that shit? That sort of "manipulation" is rare, and in no way a common "advancement technique" for any woman who seeks to keep her job and repute.
You say the male brain is "base", to boot? I think that's stupid, male brains are just as capable of resisting temptation as anyone else's brains. :|

On the last count, the author states that men are told much LESS to fear for their safety at night. Women are told it all the time, and see examples of male-enacted (most often) violence or assault against other women who do choose to go outside.
For example, men likely feel no hesitation to jog around their own college campus at night in even a safe neighborhood: if they are accosted or hurt, it was assumed this is because they didn't fight back, not first blamed for being male and outside. Women think extremely carefully and often just cease entirely, out of fear or a bad experience: if accosted, women are blamed for merely being women at night.