The Asian Way of Raising a Child

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

Being a Chinese myself, I'm fortunate to say that my parents are nothing like the author of the above article. As shown by my presence here at this site, my parents don't have a limit of how long I spend on the Mac computer, watching anime, reading manga, or playing StarCraft 2. I go out and find my own part-time jobs, and choose my own sports to play. Interestingly, I still make straight A's, play the piano & flute, and studies med at university (which most Asians consider to be "the career to go" for a "bright future").

I know a lot of friends with parents like this, being in the Chinese circle, but I certainly don't believe most of them are happy. Even the ones that are happy are probably suffering from Stockholm Syndrome like the author's daughters.

What are your thoughts regarding this 'Asian' way of education? And do you reckon it works? I don't even know if I would be doing as well as I am now if my parents were like that. Knowing myself, I'd probably rebel and perform poorly to deliberately piss them off.

What's with the proud tone of the article? I'm Asian, born and raised, and man I'm pissed off. If it's me I'd rebel right aw... owait, I did rebel. I'm certainly not doing as well as those straight-As kids, but well, seeing how most of them are like, I don't think I want to be like them. That aside, while this method may work to more obedient kids, I still hate it. Forcing isn't my way of doing things.

My mom was one of those straight A moms but are we chinese? Fuck no I'm half white and flip. I didn't care and i prefer to do what makes me happy vs doing what most flips stereotypically do regardless if it makes me tons of money. And I've met other flips who are full and their parents are pretty lax and encourage some of this shit that these chinese moms dont want them doing.

I was raised like that. I never wanted for anything, and I was successful, but I wasn't too happy either. Fuck yeah, I rebelled. I'm grateful for some of what my parents did, I honestly am, but I feel like they did more damage than good.

Some good rebuttal articles:

http://bettymingliu.com/2011/01/parents-like-amy-chua-are-the-reason-why-asian-americans-like-me-are-in-therapy/
http://resistracism.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/p-s-you-suck/#more-6375
http://www.racialicious.com/2011/01/10/the-wall-street-journal-explains-why-chinese-mothers-are-superior/

And a nice discussion on it.

http://www.quora.com/Parenting/Is-Amy-Chua-right-when-she-explains-Why-Chinese-Mothers-Are-Superior-in-an-op-ed-in-the-Wall-Street-Journal

I am Korean. I moved to the states when I was five, and my folks are pretty mellow people. I had restrictions on how long I could play video games, but that was it. It didn't bother me because I enjoyed going outdoors more as a child.

The Asian Way of Raising Kids works. If you destroy a child's individuality before it ever develop and tell them to study, play the piano (I mean I enjoy it NOW, but as a kid it was bloody miserable), and whatnot for hours a day everyday...they'll get good at it. Humans are creatures of habit, and if we do something (with or without our consent) for hundreds and thousands of repetitions, it'll stick.

However, when I say it 'works', I mean it works in terms of what the parents will want. The child will GET straight A's, and KNOW how to play the piano. They will not EARN straight A's or LEARN how to play the piano.

And how well will they do once they're off to college and have to part with crazy mom? They'll rebel like a son of a bitch, get ravenously drunk and off themselves in the first week and mom will wonder what she did wrong.

You also teach your child to submit to every authority figure they ever encounter.

Summary (for those who didn't read because it is obviously tl;dr): The Asian Way of Raising Kids accomplishes what the parents want but greatly hinders how well the child will integrate into society. The child will have deplorable social skills which will prevent them from getting a job, which is the point of straight A's, no?

Yeah, no. Stupid article is stupid. The stupid bitch is reinforcing all the stereotypes of Asians raising their children.

I moved from Hong Kong to Canada when I was 5. I've never had any type of limitations. I was basically allowed what I wanted to do. Did my grades suffer? Hell to the fucking no. I got straight As from elementary to high school. Even in university, I still average 3.4 CGPA. I was never beaten down with a stick to get to studying. Everything I've done was at my own pace, and I fucking loved it.

I know several people that was raised the "Chinese-style" and they turned up to be real fucked in the head. They hardly had any friends. I mean maybe just a handful, and guess what? Those were the same type as they were. They couldn't properly integrate with everyone else in high school. While everyone out was laughing, eating lunch and screwing around in the hallway, they were in a corner trying to do math. I'm going to go ahead and guess that they did the same in elementary school as well.

My parents were encouraging, not forceful. If I needed help, they would help find me tutors. When I said I wanted to do Martial Arts, they toured the city looking for a suitable place for me. They did everything a GOOD parent should. What this bitch is doing, is basically setting up their kids for failure. And when it hits, it's going to hit hard. I never understood why the idea of never failing is so attractive. Do you really think that it will not happen? Of course it fucking will. Failure is an unavoidable part of life. No matter how successful anyone is, they'll have failed before. That's why good parents don't groom their children not to fail, but tell them to pick themselves up and get back at it. If you do this to your kid, I guarantee that when they finally meet something they can't beat in society, all your hard parenting work will come crumbling down.

Childhood is a child's best time. Why do you think a lot of adults want to recapture the feeling they lost so many years ago? Why do people reminisce about their younger days of puppy dog love and playing in the field with friends? If you think back, elementary and high school was when you made all your friends. And how do you make friends? Well you sure as hell don't make 'em by sitting in front of a god damn piano for four fucking hours. Let's face it, the everything sucks shit when you grow up. Work, drama, bills, taxes and all that good stuff are waiting for you. So why take away the small amount of time that a child has to be free? A kid should laugh and smile when they out playing with their friends, not when you tell them to. When you continuously force a child, you basically ruin everything. Yeah, I've had my share of "unhappy" kid memories, like being forced go to a language school and other things like that. But doesn't everyone? I enjoyed playing the saxophone, because when I joined the school band, I got to choose it. I could hear my dad grumbling about how costly one of those instruments are, and he still bought it. Him and my mother could have easily forced me to play the piano I was younger. A lot of people told them that my hands were perfect for it. However, they choose not to, and I'm grateful for it.

All those little "tips" she gives to raise your child to be "perfect," is absolutely fucking 100% grade A bull-fucking-horse-shit. If you want to make a clone of yourself, well it's probably the way to go. But if it's for raising a child, you fucked up big time. You'll know too, when your child grows up, punches you in the face, and says "Thanks for ruining my childhood."

LOL what the fuck. That article stinks with Chinese arrogance. Nice work, WSJ editor.
I'm Chinese and I can say that article represents the worst type of Asian parents stereotype that came from Ming dynasty. My whole family is very strict and they demand me to be successful since I'm the only son who still carry our family name, but they still treat me like a human. What's written in there is just some sort of a black campaign to advertize Amy Chua's book, lol.


Are they also not allowed to have friends? This is ridiculous in so many levels, if this is really true then her kids will grow up without any interacting skills and end up as social outcasts, or worse, they will grow up to be stuck-up yellow bitches who think they're better than all 'Westerners' in the world just because they got straight A's in math.
I actually know someone who got the same treatment back in high school. He was on top of the class for sure, but he didn't have any friend. Didn't know how to talk with girls, didn't know any games, not funny at all and the worst part is he was a smart ass douche. Well in the end he got a nice job in a pharmacy corporation and his parents were happy as fuck. But what they will never know is while their genius son is busting his ass working like a donkey in a research lab, I'm playing billiard with his manager who is my friend and a drop out.
You can't live with IQ alone, social skills, friends, and connections are more important to improve your career. That's how life works.



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I can still accept this except for the shame part. Not every child has the same personality, some are more sensitive and introverted than the others. When you hurt a child's psyche there will be a chance he will break down and emotionally scarred for life, and nothing deals more damage than humiliating your child in public.
Plenty of ego-inflating parental praise? When he finally got praised for his performance he would only think of your praise as a mere reward, not a form of parental love. This is just wrong. There's a limit to everything and your son is not a Chinese superboy, so when he got a B+ on his math test just give him a break once in a while and be thankful that he is at least smarter than half of his class.



lol fucker. I love my parents and I swear when I've become a successful man I'm going to repay them for every kindness they've done to me, but they never forced me to think I'm indebted to them. I obey my parents because I've seen them as a good example of humans, because they're worthy of my obedience, not because I HAVE to obey them. Respect is earned, not given.
When you think your children must repay you for everything you've done to them, you've failed as a parent because you treat them as an investment assets.



lol this is why there are only few world class Asian artists and designers compared to Western ones. Noo, you have to go to med school, become a doctor and make your parents proud, fuck art school you can't get money from drawing shit, who the fuck cares about your hobbies and dreams, because the entire purpose of your pathetic life is to get money, get Asian bitches, and make your parents proud. Some of my cousins are like this and when I asked them if they're happy with their life, it took a full 5 second pause until they answered "Mm maybe". Holy shit.

tl;dr, imo this article exaggerates the strict Chinese stereotype of raising children to rouse people's curiosity and promote Chua's book. If publicity is what they wanted, then they got it. But if this article really summarized what's written in the book then I can say this Amy Chua is a stupid, narrow-minded Asian mother and I'm curious how many years her daughters have left before they finally break down and commit suicide.

^ What somesome said about being "indebted" to your parents is correct on so many levels. My parents raise me, for my sake. Not theirs.

What the FUCK is the point of raising a child? Isn't so that you can give your love and receive their love in exchange? When the fuck did it become a business? Kids aren't suppose to be "indebted" to you. You do it because they're your kids. You want them to succeed, because it's them that has to face whatever's coming at them. Overprotective, and overbearing parents fail in that regards completely. If you take every hit for them, they'll never stand on their own. They'll always believe that their parents will bail them out, and when they don't. They'll probably off themselves in about 5 seconds.

This line is what cements her as one of the worst parents out there:



Are you fucking kidding me? Isn't it a sign if you kid hates you, then you fucked up big time? No parent should EVER be hated. If you hate your parents, then there's a major problem.

Fixed. Note how some of those conflict. A further representation of how impossible it is to appease impossible parents. How does this not fall under child abuse.

Im chinese, and luckily my parents are not like that.

I do know some of my friend's parents who are like the author.

"You didn't get top in class? You are a disgrace!"
"You cannot, absolutely CANNOT, speak to anyone whom i don't approve of"
"I will Cane your hands if you make a mistake on the piano"


And when the kids rebel...

"WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME? I AM YOUR MOTHER!"
"I RAISED YOU AND THIS IS WHAT YOU GIVE ME!"

And the kids will feel guilty and become obedient.
Thus restarting the vicious cycle of parent tyranny.

Sure, the kids become respectable, well educated adults when they grow up.
But The mind of the kid is distorted and rotting.

I think the example given in the article is a little bit too extreme. And as many of you already pointed out, these "assertions" about "the Chinese strictness" are rather fabricated to provoke attention. However, I am convinced that parents should push their children to professional success. You can accuse the "Chinese Mother" in this Article for many things, but SHE CARES and is DEDICATED. Many western mothers totally lack these traits. "Stressing academic success is not good for children" is only another excuse for bad parenting. Most Western mothers would rather go partying than intensively occupy themselves with their children.

Many of you Asians may still complain that your parents should be more liberal, but didn't the thread-starter himself say that he is on the way to success? And Nekohime, don't you have an academic degree? Eventually you will be thankful to your parents, for success and discipline are the highest traits a human can desire for himself.

If all the world had "Asian parents" it would be a better place.

The example in the article was extreme, but that fits what some parents are to a tee. Like I said, my mother was exactly like that, except instead of violin (which I chose for myself, and gladly practised 2-4hrs a day) it was academics and swimming.

I'm pretty sure you didn't have a "Chinese" upbringing, so you have no idea what harm it wreaks on your psyche. I'm lucky in that I have a naturally narcissistic personality; if I were a meeker person, I'd probably be even more of a wreck. Young Asian-American women have the highest rates of suicide and have more suicidal thoughts compared to other groups (source). There's real harm in the way that perfection in every aspect of your life is emphasized and expected. It's one thing to encourage excellence, but another thing to make your affection and love contingent on achievements.

I read that article, and a lot of the things that the mother said she did to her daughter, could actually be considered child abuse.

"We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom."

That right there, depriving a child of their basic needs, such as water and the use of a toilet, is cruel and inhumane.

It then continues to say that Western Parents "will not call their child 'stupid,' 'worthless' or 'a disgrace.'"
That is the kind of language abusive fathers/boyfriends use on women to lower their self worth, so that they don't struggle so much when they rape them.

"Chinese mothers can say to their daughters, 'Hey fatty—lose some weight.'"
Again, those kind of words are the very thing that send daughters into unhealthy habits such as throwing up their food or starving themselves for days at end, so that they can attain that 'perfect' weight.

And the end result is an adult that has had to deal with endless abuse/trauma and cannot trust/interact with others on the same social wavelength.

"As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me"

A lot like the mother, in this article.

You're such a fucking fan boy it's sickening. Leave it out of SD when you want to be taken seriously. It's brought up otherwise, and detracts from arguments.



One point two billion Chinese people can't be wrong. With a constantly evolving culture, discipline is necessary for any family, community, and culture. The Chinese have it in spades, happiness be damned. That's what being old is for: enjoying the fruits of your labour. Dying happy/complete/fulfilled is all that matters to most people, and if you go early, sucks to be you. The rest just keep on chugging.

Honestly, my mother would never deprive me of my basic needs, but I guess you could say she did a fair number of the the things the article writer listed. Educating and raising a child is always a changing process, and it differs for every child.

It's not about treating every child equally, but treating every child with what they require as an individual to foster success. Often, one method works better than another, but that's not to say that other methods never work. There are kids who are able to thrive and grow up to be healthy adults even in a family with parents as strict as her. It's just that there are also kids who become depressed and suicidal.

At the same time, there are parents who constantly praise there child, and yet the child feels as if he/she is not worthy of the praise in the more you try to make them feel better, the worse they actually feel.
So really, there's no form of teaching that is actually "superior", it's just what works best for your child. And since no one knows what's best unless they could see the future, everyone just needs to take it one step at a time.

From a personal standpoint, my mother literally said to be once, "All I expect from you is that you try your best. And since I know that if you try your best, you'll get perfect, I expect to see perfect on your report cards." This isn't something that everyone should say to your child, but after giving birth to me, giving up her job so she could raise me 24/7 (and when I say 24/7, I mean 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year) I think she knew me well enough that I wouldn't start trying to jump off buildings.

I'm certainly not saying my parents are anything like the author of the article. While I agree that the Western society can make do with a slightly stricter upbringing (hey, at least tell your kids that saying the F word is wrong and offensive), I don't believe that the entire World having "Asian parents" like the one in this article will make it a better place in the slightest. Both nationalities need to learn from each other, really. The Western need to realize that a certain amount of expectation should be placed onto the children for them to do as best as they can, and the Eastern need to realize that forcing them to do everything doesn't result in them reaching their full potential.

That's a fallacious statement if one was ever made. I could argue the same for the Indians and everyone would think me mad, or all the Africans who still practice female genital mutilation and burning witches... plenty of those people still around.



Yes, the Chinese economy is developing, but since most of the country empire is literally being dragged out of medieval levels of living it's no wonder that the change is so extreme. (When you start out on the rock bottom, or close to it, you can only go up). Yes, it takes extreme effort to do this. However I wouldn't call this an unmitigated success. The current generation of Chinese city dwellers are practically sacrificing their life so their children will have a better standard of living. It's like the 19th century all over again, rife with exploitation, episodic success stories and an endless stream of human suffering as humans are transformed into parts of a huge machines that eats the old world and spits out the foundation of the new industrialized society.

It's a painful birth and those who make it may never live to reap its benefits. It also brings an obsession with material possessions, superficial signs of status that all in all are a far cry of what traditional elitism - and it *is* elitism that's at the heart of the issue - stands for.

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Please don't equate western society with the USA. Yes, the EU has plenty of rejects and loosers too, who never had a wake up call, or a good kick to the nuts to realize they're wasting their life, but at least the situation here is far from being as bad as in the States.

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Back on the direct topic:

It is elitism that we're talking about. Raising your child to be above the standard, to be ahead the curve, to be the best... however I find American and Asian American elitism to be a hollow farce.

Your child has a degree in medicine, holds a well paying job, has brand clothes, lots of money? A farce. How come people earn and spend ever more money, yet they're not happy, their life is ever more neurotic with obsessive focus on signs of status, signs of wealth instead anything of substance?

I prefer good 'ol fashioned continental elitism:

1. You're expected to do your best. It is still measured in *results*, not in *effort*, none of that crap with making the child feel better about themselves just because they're putting some effort into it.

2. However perfection is not expected, in fact a classical elite education will typically put challenges to the student he can't overcome and will fail on his own. This is to force him to learn how he can overcome such challenges through learning new methods, of co-operating with his peers, of seeking assistances from books, teachers, contacts and so on.

3. Skill is prized above rote knowledge or aptitude. A skilled man can adapt, learn, improvise and overcome; a talent can only singularly apply himself to a problem and push through brute force.

4. Knowledge is subject to the needs in life and although held sacred, it is no golden cow, revered as some source of welfare. It's a necessary foundation, but obsessively trying to accumulate ever more will only hurt in the long run.

Like demanding that a kid forever learns ever more maths... why? Unless he'll be a mathematician or physicist it'll be waste. If he becomes those, he'll learn in due time, but right now there are more important *skills* he should acquire.

5. Emphasis is put on building character, of overseeing proper behavior. This isn't done through constant control, but through careful intervention in daily life where the student are taught appropriate ways to interact - this will serve them well in high society. Etiquette, protocol, conflict and crisis management. Unobserved in a boarding school, the students are taught a welfare of tools to achieve socially, to have a range of tools to *work with people*.

A lot of what's written in management originated here, except this is learned instinctively and in practice that no damn seminar in "advanced management" will ever compare.

6. Awareness of politics, economy, literature, ideas, philosophies... in one word, the substance of the world is a central part of this education. An elite must always walk in the world with open eyes, he will never be content with the superficial impressions.

This is a far cry from the inane and all in all childish attitude I see in so called "strict parents". They teach their children to be hard workers, but little else.

I'm Chinese and I say that woman is insane. Though my mom was strict she knew that if you raised someone who followed your every command then your child would not have self will or motivation to do anything once the parent is gone. Though now I feel like every compliment is sarcasm and I am lower than everyone else :(

I can understand a parent's desire to instill discipline into their children. Too many kids of my generation are growing up thinking that the world owes them everything. Our parents grew up thinking the exact opposite and worked their butts off, and that's why my generation gets to live so comfortably.

Parents should teach their kids how to have a good work ethic, how to respect other people, etc. What they shouldn't do is take away all sense of individuality their child has and make them work such insane hours that they are deprived of the opportunity to TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE. A straight-A student who can't make eye contact with anyone they talk to and are unable to express their ideas to others is worthless.

@Nekohime:
I am well aware of the negative sides that such a strict and demanding upbringing can have on the children, since everything has its positive and negative sides. Of course there are ways of raising children to achieve both success and guarantee mental health, BUT for this you would need a psychological background and a lot of time. And most parents obviously can't have this. So, if we have to choose between the extremes, the nonchalant and the strict, the strict is always better. Yes, it can harm the child, but it also gives him a chance to achieve something in his life, while the nonchalant way will harm him eventually even more - because he will have achieved nothing, become unemployed, depressive, drunk, etc.

I had no strict upbringing, yet my parents still demanded from me to be sporty, educated and have academic success. And looking back, I wish they were a little stricter in the sporty aspect, because there only have I achieved nothing (no medals, cups, etc.). Now that you mention swimming; I used to train in a swimming-club for some years as well. There was always this Asian guy, who was the smallest, yet was much faster than all of us Europeans. So "Asian way of raising children" > "my parent's way of raising children", lol.

@ImperialX:
I don't think that forbidding your children to use the F-word means that you raise them well. The problem of the Western society is not strict enough, but that it gives a fuck. People in the West don't want children anymore. They want to have more money and time for themselves. Children are considered a mistake in contraception. This is the mindset of the western society: youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ. People who care for their children, are always strict and demanding. How they transport this message, either harming the children or not, is another matter.

@Flaser:
What is the point of your post? I think everyone here knows the Western propaganda inside out. The poor fat-assed Americans who lost their Jobs because the Chinese do it better, *booohooo*. I live in Western Europe, so here probably the things are more fucked up then in Eastern Europe, regarding children. So saying that (Western) Europe is non comparable with the USA in this aspect is total nonsense. But as I see how the trends are going, even Eastern Europe will be as bad as the USA in ~20 years.

Also, where did you get that "6 points of continental elitism" from? Because it's total nonsense. Old fashioned elitism in Europe always consisted of Status, Money, and Knowledge, and not "skills" or "working with people", lol.