The higher power

I just don't see any reason to do so , you are not the kind of person with who i can have a serious discussion .

Oh my, such fierce defence of your territories Disgaea. You do cherish your SD don't you?



Hello Puffpuff, good to see you're involving yourself. Just a word of advice and not a telling off: this is SD. People who come here try and talk seriously. I see you do as well. That is good.

But. You are new here.

In the aspect that everyone must try and get along, all try to avoid calling out names. Some forget, some don't mean it, others merely try to distill the Serious Discussion population by dissuading "newbies".

Disgaea loves SD. He is older on these forums than you, or me even. He deserves respect for this elderness of his.

Avoid conflict, open that is, with people. Stay civil like you just did. And if all fails, walk away, or if you truly feel insulted, report to the mods, though only in severe cases.

In this case, your first post:



was all to short and lacked the arguments that are characteristic of SD. Thus Disgaea responded, trying to shoo away a newbie, which is his right, for many new users tend to pollute SD with ill mannered posts such as this one.

Longer posts, better arguments. the fault here was yours, but it was a small one, that then escalated with your confrontation.

Please take this post as a small message of friendship, and from someone who likes people to get along, especially when he likes both of them.

Cheerio.

No, status or amount of time someone has been on fakku does not mean you should bow to them. In SD you are expected to act in a respectful manner and have an educated debate on the topic of the thread that you should have some knowledge of. I hate no one on Fakku, but disgea is guity of doing the same thing that Superstring has done on this thread and I will stop since I am going off topic.

I'm sorry for calling them stupid, it won't happen again.




I don't respect people for how long they've been registered and active on a forum; initially I have a basic form of respect, of course, but my respect will depend on the content of their posts. Disgea doesn't deserve my respect as he accused me of something he himself is guilty of; such an act is nothing but stupid (note that I'm not calling him stupid, but merely how he acts).




He has no right to shoo away anyone. As far as I know, he's not a moderator.
That post was an extension of my previous post, perhaps I should've included a reference. Here's the quote:



Apply that post with the one you quoted, and you'll see it's a bit more logically structured.




There are plenty of short posts in this thread; as was the one I responded to earlier (by Pedrotaku). But sure, I will keep that in mind.




I thank you for the friendly message, I'll keep my opinions regarding other people to myself from now on.

I'll just clarify this since i don't like to be unjustly accused of something that isn't true . There is a big , enourmous and huge difference between our two insults that you obviously don't get : They don't have the same purpose . Yours was to attack him personaly and laugh from him while mine had for only goal to make you realise something , so no i was not contradicting myself by insulting you while i said to stop insulting people .



Btw you just said that you would keep your comments like that for yourself in this same post ...

Can i ask you something , is every other's opinion stupid to you ? Since your first comment every time someone gave his point of view on something you just say it's stupid or even worst that he is stupid for having an opinion . I'll say it more clearly , to be on topic : do you consider yourself to be the higher power ? Because that's the impression you give , that's also why i didn't continue our little discussion .

BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND *cough*
It is possible to believe in something without being able to, or even feeling the need to define it extensively. One can simply believe that "something greater than Man can comprehend" (AKA A Higher Power) created the world as we know it.

Yes, I suppose you're right. However, there is no valid reason for a belief like that. There is nothing empirical that supports said belief, so they are just wild speculations (which is why asserting creationism is so stupid, rather than just staying at a speculatory level).

We've advanced in our understanding of the universe; before we knew about the expansion of the universe, and before we traced it back to a singular point, and even before we knew about evolution, we simply assumed that God had put us here along with every other animal. God, a creator, was used as a subsitute for science. Creationists often level themselves with the scientists in the sense that they assert their belief at whatever stage science stands.

For example. When we knew nothing about the universe, creationists claimed God had created everything as is. We discovered that the Earth was not flat, which creationists (after some time) leveled with and then claimed that it was indeed God's intention. We then discovered the heliocentric solar system, and they leveled with that aswell. As is with evolution, or any other scientific theory (some creationists even deny it).

My point is that we're getting closer and closer to the very origin of the universe; the idea of a creator is so far fetched and illogical if you look at the scientific advancements we've made. The closer we get, the more irrational a creator seems.

I'd like to quote Christopher Hitchens:


In cases like this, which relates prior to the universe, statements can easily be asserted. There is no reason to believe anything if you can't prove or disprove it using empirical evidence within our own universe. It's pointless.


I apologize beforehand if my text is messy, I haven't slept for about 24 hours.

And this is why a serious discussion on the possible existence of a Higher Power should be philosophical, and not scientific. Faith and reason, while not being necessarily opposed, are by their very natures unable to support each other. No matter how hard you can try to reason it out, any belief will eventually boil down to "I believe it is so because it is my nature to do so."

Dunno if I am an athiest or agnostic, but here goes. =P

A higher power is such a vast concept. To some it will be a god that may or may not be connected to various religions. Others it may be less supernatural, like me perhaps.

To me, the least plausible thing I would believe in would be a higher power connected to any religion on earth, as a higher power requiring the various ways of life that is described in the major religions makes no sense to me at least (no offense meant to anyone this is just my view when I face this question).

A higher power could also be an advanced alien species that could appear godlike.

If I have to say what my "higher power" would be, I would say its the universe. Nothing supernatural about it, no religion or god, but accepting how incredible the universe is. What we used to believe was "nothingness" like that of space is now believed or even known through scientific theories to be packed with energy.

If I am allowed to not pick a "higher power" then I will indeed say I believe in none. Half because I have seen no evidence of it. And the other half because I am a positive thinking person and the thought of a higher power dominating us or the universe or whatever is a very depressing thought. I prefer the freedom and our scientists quest for knowledge. =P

Well this'll be fun.

Let me ask about the logical validity of what you just said.

You claim it says nowhere that God 'hates this' or 'hates that' when anti-homosexual references are given, you state, "Sure, but it doesn't say God hates them." Which to me is just a semantic argument that gets us nowhere.

You do, however, admit that those who are homosexuals, despite the bible's statements about how bad it is, will not receive eternal happiness in heaven(unless they pray for forgiveness, which I'll get into in a second). So you admit that God favors some people over others. Yet he hates nobody.


So here's the syllogism.

1. God shows preference to some people.(giving them paradise in heaven)
2. God shows negative preference for others.(in other words, hell)
3. From 1 and 2, we can determine that God, as defined, 'dislikes' some.
4. Hell is considered an eternal punishment people would rather not experience.
Conclusion, God's dislike of some to the point of denying them paradise and giving them whatever concept of 'hell' you agree exists. Since hell is not a place people wish to go to, and is considered a very bad thing, and eternal, harsh punishment, it is apt to say those who are sent to this place, or state of being, are 'hated' by the person who sends them there.

So yeah.



So they can go to heaven if they pray to god to forgive them for how he made them.

Why does that seem like a valid thing to you? Why are they created ill, and commanded to become well? If I were to inject someone with a sickness, and then demand they ask me to forgive them for having it...would that be moral?



Maybe. But that's just your interpretation.



I don't hate homosexuals. I just don't like them.

...Seriously, think about that for a second and realize how silly that sounds.



Doesn't seem logically consistent to love someone yet send them to eternal torture, it'd be great if you could logically justify that.



No True Scotsman



You might want to talk to some of the Eastern Orthodox Catholics that believe, specifically, that trying to convince people to believe is actually immoral.



Of course, you didn't back up your arguments with biblical passages, so I don't think you can aptly claim that he hasn't read the bible. What he hasn't done is attribute the correct interpretation to you. But that's all you can claim.

Also, if you agree that some people are going to go to hell, then why wouldn't it be important to you that people agree with you on this particular subject?

Edit: Gotta love the, "I can't argue with you, so neg rep for j00." tactics. Makes me happy to get neg repped really, means I'm getting in your heads ;)

I belive that God created the cosmos and the earth (heaven and earth) and jesus died for our sins so satan no longer had any control over us faithful servants. I believe every thing in the Holy bible and I believe the holy spirit lives within us all.
I hope God forgives
cuz when I go
I dont know
if I will rest in peace
or if Ill rest beneath the earth
where hellish flames burst
on earth the game is cursed
but in hell the pain is worse
I cant explain the hurt I feel
when I use birth control seals
was it worth it for real
just to hit some hoes
I was so impatient
that I would risk my soul
so now Im forced to wonder
will I forever wander
ya feel me?

---

What you know system are quite similar, except I call what you believe to be mana ki. Also, I don't think Tao created anything, since creating is a form of yin energy, initially anyways, which cause distortions of balance which then make it no longer Tao, well at least in theory. Another thing, I also don't view Tao as a higher power but more of essences.

I have no set god, I do believe in a higher being, but whether it's a god, or a kid with a sniper rifle with the would "karma" written on it, I'll have to die to find out

I believe in a grand creator. Evolution did happen, but it was planned. The big bang did occur, but it is no more chance, than when light comes out of the bulb when you turn on the switch. I believe that we have complete freedom, which is also part of the plan. I believe that the meaning of our life, is entirely self determined. I believe that everything that happens in the world, is a reaction from none other than, ourselves.

I believe this creator, created it as a simulation. Our souls are injected when we are born, and our entire purpose is simply to experience life. There is no failure state. I believe the creator lives a life exactly like ours, without any benefits or disadvantages.

But most of all, I refuse to believe that my consciousness is a fluke, and ultimately meaningless. I find it illogical and impossible.

Life beign meaningless as nothing illogical , what is illogical is to say you have freedom when everything is determined by god's plan ...

I don't think there is a higher power nor do I wish there to be. Life is more enjoyable if you don't have to concern yourself with what some sky daddy thinks about you or worry about what happens when you die.

Generally-speaking, I do believe in a higher power. Personally, I believe in Christ. But I do respect that there are people who have different beliefs than me, be they atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, neo-Nazis etc. There are countless books written debating on the presence of a higher power. I however, believe that faith is not something you can merely discover through books or tangible knowledge. Call me subjective, irrational, emotional. I've no intention to debate or refute others' opinions. What I do know however is that "faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." (Hebrews 11:1) This obviously doesn't have to only apply to the Christian context; faith in aliens, faith in Gundam, faith in whichever political party you belong to, faith in your friends, faith in yourself..the list goes on.

I would just like to point out that the "True Scotsman" fallacy doesn't apply in that specific case because it goes against both the spirit and express point of Christianity. Such a person may identify him/herself as a Christian, but doesn't actually follow Christian beliefs, and, therefore, really isn't a true Christian.