What does being a feminist mean to you?

I ignore you not by choice, but due to the fact you, Cruz and Loli-chan present pretty much the same debate. And it can get very tiring posting my philosophical approach numerous times, especially since I don't think this crowd of opposition will get it any time soon.

No. No we won't, because we don't have deluded, futile, misogynistic ideas that have been antiquated since the 70's. The only time you will ever be able to live in the world of your choice, is if you build a time machine and get the hell out of our era in human history.

I hate repeating myself, but let us look at it objectively:

-You desire a world where women can commit actions that would very well lead to their deaths for no one's benefit at all, certainly not their families.

-I desire a world where women would be protected as the eternal beauty that they are.

So, which of us is misogynistic? Which one of us harbors hatred? I think its the one who thinks of female life so lowly as to throw it away.

Your era of human history is already declining. 54 million lives were sacrificed, the value of a woman's femininity has been degraded forever and I am the evil one?

The value of marriage? Meaningless. Relationships? If they can even be sustained in the first place. This is your era, your world, the record for which world history will judge.

Judge it for yourself, not in the vague terms of the future but here and now.

Stop playing this game, LA. It's been old for a very long time. You don't give a shit about the rights of women, you want a suburban utopia filled with babies and smiling, coiffed housewives. Your ideals are not centered around anything benign, helpful, or in any way positive. You think of women who want to be happy as 'destroying America'. That is not your place. Come the hell off your high horse and admit to yourself that the truth of your beliefs is not 'love' or 'preserving' anything worth being preserved. You want women to behave the way YOU want them to. I care little about whether or not someone has an opposing view to mine, but when someone thinks others who have differing opinions at all are 'the reason the whole world is screwed'... well, sir, you are a huge part of the problem. You go so far as to actually think women shouldn't make their own choices.


Good luck ever having any semblance of a healthy relationship, when you actually think women are immature, self-destructive, petulant little children that run around 'screwing up the world' by 'working overtime' and 'having sex'. Good God, your self-righteous crusade against progress itself is thoroughly exhausting.

You dance around the subject, throwing out statistics like they prove your point, but the reality is you are clearly terrified of accepting the fact that the idea of women having free will disgusts you. Women, hell, people in general, reserve the right to live how they want. It is not your place, your right, or your business to say what is a waste of someone's life or not. If it's worth it to the person, that's damn well enough.

A short life, lived the way that fulfills you is leaps and bounds better than a long one, under the chain of someone else' ideas. These chains being your idea that women are holy vessels of life that need to be preserved, untouched, and kept safely on this pedestal where they amuse themselves with lipstick and finding a husband. Not only is this an immeasurable insult to the female gender altogether, it's also completely and utterly futile. Progressive gender roles statistically improve a nation's wellbeing and overall stability. Our generation is largely progressive and humanist. Your antiquated ideas, along with your static, conservative dreams will be crushed under the boots of the liberated.

You leave me no choice Loli, I apologize to everyone in advance but I think its about time we stopped talking in semantics and got a real visual look at the world that Loli-chan's so fond of:









Just imagine women in those coffins on a massive scale, imagine women fallen to the ground in the desert, thousands of miles away from the homeland. And while late-term abortion is one of the more graphic abortion procedures, its not like the other ones are any less so.

In fact, about a quarter or so of woman(if not more) suffer PTSD effects as a result. A Vacuum with powerful force going inside the vagina and forcibly sucking the life out of the womb, violating the woman.

If death itself is "worth it to the person", we normally call that suicidal. And I really doubt a woman grew up thinking "I'm so patriotic I want to join the army." So we can cut the sentimental crap.

Statistics do not "dance around" the truth, Loli-Chan they represent the truth. The videos and pictures I've demonstrated also represent the truth. And I never said that "having sex" ruined anything, in fact I haven't even invoked the word once in our conversation.

I spoke to how families are being destroyed, and how we can accomplish women being paid on fairly high salaries, while not taking them away from the children.

This is your world, this is how the future looks like. The death and degradation of women, and you wanna know the ironic thing?

Women are to blame for it all.

Okay, tired of watching. Also, called it.



Who gives a fuck that they're women? Like, really. Yeah it's sad that they died, but it'd be just as sad if they were men. I don't get why them being women makes it worse. If they were soldiers then they knew what they were getting into. And don't you dare spout that "sacred feminine" crap because it means nothing (except to you).




Really? Because I'm pretty sure at least several people grew up thinking "I'm so patriotic I want to join the army." Women included. I mean, I don't get why women can't be as patriotic as men. Oh wait, they just can't in your warped world. Also, if death itself is "worth it to the person," we normally call that "dying for a cause," which the individual who died typically believes strongly in. Are you gonna call those firefighters who died on 9/11 suicidal because they were doing their job and trying to save people? I'd hope not.



Classy.

Yeah, you're right. This country has become pathetically hopeless, even more humiliating is that this country's proud of its own stupidity. I'll try to explain it to you, once more and try to listen:

-Women are the only source of life, without women the population would be culled dramatically. In China, the sex-abortion policies is a part of what has led to their questioned future decades down the line. But not only this, but women are mothers, caretakers, teachers and nurses.

Could men fulfill these roles? Possibly, as well as a woman? Most probably not. Is there any benefit to trying this idea? Well, the era we live in now is one of crime, disease and death. So I can't honestly say there's been any benefits.

Dreams are one thing, reality's another.



At least they were trying to save lives, what honestly were the soldiers accomplishing? In all honesty, throughout war there may only be a few "missions" that end up being significant which utterly change the course of history such as Stalingrad.

Every other battle to that point, was meaningless. Thousands of untold, meaningless and pathetic deaths. You've now subjected women to a fate of dying without friends, family members and without any memories of love and affection. Oh, the Humanity! You've advanced the cause of the Human Race.(Note my sarcasm)

There aren't many women(In fact, I bet very few women) who grew up dreaming of their own deaths. Partially, because we were a sane enough society to prevent that from occurring.





But women don't want to be treated with class, you yourself said that the Sacred Feminine didn't exist. Loli, a woman, agreed. So, I'll treat women as they supposedly desire.

Truefax, soldiers are bred in heaps and have neither family nor friends. They are also incapable of giving and accepting love.


Class =! being put on a pedestal. You should go out and learn the difference.


I want to butt into this conversation again, I haven't read through the entire thread, and I'm not about to so this might already have been answered but I would really like an answer to this: LA, what is your stance on sex? Yay or nay for women and men?

Every person who signs up for the military knows full well that we're likely to die in combat. Every woman I've spoken to or trained beside during PT knew the consequences of their enlistment. You do everyone a disservice by your prattle of "sacred feminine" and other nonsense. If women want to enlist and possibly die then let them. It is their right as sovereign individuals to determine the course of their life by their own actions. Women are not your pretty songbirds you can keep in some cage because of some inane "sacred feminine" philosophy you adhere to. Your arbitrary rules of what women should and should not do are nothing more than that, arbitrary rules.




As of 2010 there are 203,695 women serving as either Officers or Enlisted of all branches of the military. They couldn't possibly have decided to serve because of patriotism right? You really insult them and their families by questioning their patriotism.



Which is more degrading; being the bird in the gilded cage, or being allowed to choose your own destiny with all that comes with it? If the answer isn't obvious, you need psychiatric help.

Okay, no. My friend from high school and college got a job as a math teacher and he had multiple schools make offers to get him to work for them. They wanted him. And he loves his job. Oh, and guess what? I got a job as a teacher too! I start in about a month and a half. But I should probably just throw in the towel now since I'm a dude. Guess the fact that I made it through two interviews and an online application don't mean anything. But if I had some tits I'd be all set huh.

I thought you were smarter than Loli to resort to semantics. Who is keeping Women in a cage? Once upon a time, we made this philosophical, political decision as to protect women. To men, it was once unbearable to imagine. Now to you its acceptable? As I said, once before and again: Degradation. The men themselves have lost pride.

Women hold a higher value than men and always will, that's not my choice but their genetic design. Populations that were sexist towards female fetuses and/or where the idea of childbirth was looked down upon are declining.

Of course, the most important value of a woman is her motherhood, she teaches, she nurses, etc. Allowing women to thrive as they are is far from keeping them in a cage, in fact I'm letting the bird fly.

The only thing I'm not doing, is letting the baby chick fly before her wings are ready and some predator eats her alive. And if you think thats "Freedom", then we have different ideas about freedom.

People have freedom to do as they wish, that's certainly true. And sometimes there's accidents that occur even when freedoms are granted. That's true. But usually with every freedom granted, there's something beneficial.

In this liberal world of death, do tell me where there's a benefit? What rights are
Females getting that they didn't have before, and please spare the word "choice", I mean an actual benefit which is developing their lives.

They aren't, unless death is a benefit. And as I said, we normally call that suicidal. I have nothing against people committing suicide, but this is much worse.

Those women, if some should manage to actually come home alive will no doubt develop PTSD and others, their caring ability all but gone and they have the right and access to military weapons.

So tell me, what do you think will happen with just a few of those cases? I think whatever fabric of society is left will be ruined and of course, the supporters of this policy will be held to account.

Consequences, my friend. They exist and the consequence of this game of Russian Roulette are far too great. If America had a backbone, they would protest this policy but that too is long since gone.

This country will never have insomuch as another Vietnam revolution, never mind the other revolutions. The consequences of an apathetic citzenry, the death of America. There's no need for terrorists to continue their fight, america's moral decline has already been self-evident.





I'll continue to question it, Fiery. You know as well as I do, that many of those women didn't have to grow up in a situation where they thought "Oh, it'll be cool to join the military." The military in fact, has such trouble recruiting members period that they offered scholarships and such. The sad thing, again, is you'll only see those benefits if you actually come out alive.


And whether they held patriotism towards joining the military or not, isn't even the slightest bit of my concern.(Though the number of those who do is probably around 50,000 or so).

That's far too many women in the military, and that's pre-Panetta's decision. If we continue hovering around average in birth production, losing potentially hundreds of mothers, the loss of life would be catastrophic.

They can have the freedom to do whatever they want, as long as they don't threaten the larger society and their own families with their choice. Those of us who conduct political policy have to think of society at large, not the whims of average Jane and Joe who can't even comprehend the meaning of policy.











You present a false choice(IE: You act as though the females would be a bird in a glided choice). You know full well that I'm not going to choose option number two. And I already explained why.

Some choices are better not made, some freedoms are better off not had. The freedom of death and degradation of female benefits no one, it certainly doesn't benefit the children of the future generations whom are left without parents.

I feel as though I'm arguing with drunkards who are defending their right to booze. Sure, kill your brain cells if you'd like but don't drink and drive and kill people in the process.

However, with drinking I can understand some psychological benefit. Is a false sense of patriotism the best result from this? You could argue "protecting the country", but as I said earlier. Thousands of battles ultimately end up pointless. and hundreds of thousands of soldiers die lonely, miserable, pathetic deaths.

The ones who are in a cage, ironically are females by females. Forced to live out this feminism experiment with the results being death, deprivation and humiliation.

I will free them from their self-inflicted wounds, and create a society that best suits the strengths of both genders of our human race.

I'll just leave this here.

Patriotism: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." - Albert Einstein.

Even with my extensive knowledge of history, I do not recall any civilization where women were "protected" outside of minor actions such as "women and children first". The Germanic tribes that fought against Rome fielded women amongst their ranks. Spartan women were expected to be as equally as strong as their men to act as the city-states protectors while the men were off fighting. No culture was ever built upon protecting women.



Actually, western nations are the ones in decline. China (one of those nations that was "sexist") is actually doing much better than us in regards to populations with only a mild problem of gender ratio's coming to light which was already predicted decades ago that the ratio would be out of balance. This point is moot as Western nations with our apparent blasphemy against the sacred feminine are actually seeing an increase in female births. A society that apparently degrades women is actually allowing women to excel in areas beyond men. Perhaps you should look into it.



That's the cage we speak of. You expect women to ONLY fulfill the role of a mother, a nurse, a teacher. You arbitrarily restrict women from roles such as the military because some ill may befall them. By restricting them to certain gender roles (be a nurse, a teacher, avoid the military) you are placing them in a cage.




Adult women are not "baby chicks". They are adults capable of reasoning and logic. It's their right and responsibility to live their lives as they see fit. Whether or not you agree is irrelevant.



Liberal world of death? I can't even take you seriously anymore. You make all Ron Paul supporters look bad by spouting this gibberish.




You got me, for a moment there I thought you were serious. The fabric of society is going to be torn asunder because we allowed women into combat positions. It's been a while since I fell for a troll, kudos to you my friend.




I know that's a blatant lie but, I'm not sure if it was intentional or just ignorance. The military is not having difficulty recruiting. They are actually rejecting people left and right because they have too many applicants and not enough spaces to fit them all. They are in such a good position with this flood of applicants, they can afford to be picky. I've seen people turned away from becoming enlisted because they didn't even have 1 semester of college under their belt. Everyone in my recruiting station (and I literally mean everyone) has some level of college under their belt. Anyone with just a high school diploma or G.E.D. is told to enroll in college until they have 20+ college credits then told to check back in.




There's that figurative cage again.










The only person presenting a false choice is yourself. You keep pressing that women should be "allowed" to be "free" "only if" they do certain "approved" actions.



That is not your choice to make. It is a decision best left to every soverign individual to decide for themselves. If you can't agree to that, then you're no libertarian.



I feel like I'm arguing with either; someone is desperate need of psychiatric help or a solid platinum level troll.

If someone wants to booze themselves to death. It is a violation of their natural rights (i.e property rights over their body) to prevent them by force. As someone whose called himself a libertarian in the past, I felt you would have understood such an argument. Either you're not a libertarian, or you've somehow managed to forget what being a libertarian means in my absence.

It has already been established that LA isn't very knowledgeable when it comes to both history, science and economics.

And this has been established, how, exactly? Right.

Why did you put the "Right" in the end there?

Are you implying I'm wrong? :)

ps. equality doesn't mean "prosperity".
It means equality.

See, yeah there's your problem. You keep blaming more than half of the world's population for this shit, ignoring the facts, and using worn out anti-feminism/choice/abortion/human rights bullshit.

It's rather clear that your issue is just that YOU HATE WOMEN.

I should've used slightly different wording, considering my lynch mob was waiting for this moment. This is the world that you want, right? All I'm saying is that this world has consequences whether you're willing to look at them straight or not.

Just don't pin those consequences on the opposition, when they were powerless to do anything about the things they complained about. Also, you should think of the opposition a little differently.

People oppose things not because they take a disliking to them, but because they want to protect things that are precious to them. But, if you show such haste towards your opposition, there comes times where they just don't care anymore.

I'm at such a time, I've tried explaining things with reason, logic and now all I want to do is see things play out. And regardless of how things play out, I'll be fine with it.

Actually, all you've managed to do is pontificate your outdated concepts of what women should do all while proclaiming the this "liberal culture of death" is leading to some apocalyptic scenario.

You're entire philosophy on women can be summed up quite easily. "You can't go outside dear, you might scrape your knee". While it's semantics the comparison is still apt. You refuse to let women "go outside" of their gender roles otherwise something bad might happen to them. I personally don't care if women want more difficult jobs such as infantry so long as they don't bitch to have the physical standards reduced. If you can't run 5 miles with a 100lb rucksack and a 35lb rifle, then you don't belong in the Marines regardless of your gender.

Please do me a favor, stop referring to yourself as a libertarian or that you even have the slightest of libertarian leanings. You just give us all a bad name and god knows that we have enough misconceptions as it is.

I'll do as I damn well please, Fiery. And its true that there are some general things that I agree with, but the philosophy as a whole is something that I've recently disagreed with. Absolute freedom is Anarchy, and by its whole is dangerous. A society has to be governed, limitations have to be set and roles have to be defined.

When a society is orderly, then and only then can a country maximize its true potential. You asking a woman to run at least five miles while carrying literally her entire body weight, perhaps there might be a few women who could but why put our feminine at risk for it?

You've still yet to actually give me a good reason. And last I checked, where blood spills, death ensues. So its not only accurate, its correct.

Another reason why I disagree with Libertarianism as a whole and the concept of the Republic: The Founders ultimate mistake was in believing that the 'kings' of the country would be the citizens.

The citizenry is at fault, since Vietnam having utterly failed their responsibilities. as we can see here, unable to even explain their reasoning for anything.

Maybe some apocalyptic scenario won't be happening today. But another 54 million sacrifices a few decades later, along with your insane wartime policy being enacted. And well, Loli said it would take something drastic to allow this country to expand.

I've still yet to see why the number of sacrifices must increase, I've still yet to see why its even a good thing for this to be allowed. With legalized drugs such as cigarettes and booze, there's at least a psychological calming effect for the user.

But these policies? At the best, the female soldier will have survived mentally scarred. At worst, she's dead. Again, give me one good reason.

With my policies, I would ensure that the feminine in this country is protected. That our males grow to be strong and self-dependent. And with the two genders acting as separate, yet one; our nation will once again fulfill its destiny!

We're no different from the Taliban in asking a woman to do a man's job, its unfavorable to them. Equality isn't having them do our jobs, equality is allowing them to prosper equally while fulfilling our roles.

Comparing a role to a bird in a cage is a rather inaccurate comparison. We all beseech to find our roles in life, because it is there that we find the most comfort.