Which is better, believing in a god or not?
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@ Maxiart, For something to be consider part existence it must be detected by one or more of the 6 senses which are sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, and thought. God is thought of therefore he exist. For something to be real it must be able to be seen, heard, tasted, touched, and/or smelled. Now lets go deeper, what real become reality and what can be only thought of becomes "fiction". Reality and fiction are opposite to each other but need each other. Therefore what is part of reality become fiction and what is fiction becomes the real. By the way I believe that Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, Naruto, Goku, and all fictional characters to be real. This is a basic concept of Taoism.
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Freaky Green wrote...
@ Maxiart, For something to be consider part existence it must be detected by one or more of the 6 senses which are sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, and thought. God is thought of therefore he exist.Thought isn't one the senses.
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The best way to live, in my opinion is to not care about someone/something that is almighty and just live free from that type of thoughts. You don't need a god to tell you what to do or how to live, you must always try to make the life of the people you care for happier and easier, this will make you happy and make the community around and take new things lighter.
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Well, I don't useually get in these boards, I kinda just read my some shit & get myself off but this is quite Intresting reading some of your comments seeing as that in the eyes of religion & "god" we are all sinners.
I hate to do this but Christianity was pretty much plagiarized, entirely. If anyone with half a workable brain looks at the anicent Egyptian religion of Egypt that of Horus, will see that it's very VERY similar to that of the bible.
Also the entire religion is based around astronomy, it's used to describe the sun & the celestial bodies of the sky (the zodiac signs). So if you actually have the guts to look at these 3 ~10min videos you will see all the proof & if you still think Jesus was real & that god DOES exist, well my fellow human, you are beyond repair.
Name of the videos are "sun gods: history of religion part 1of 3" they are on you tube.
Have a good day gentlemen.
I hate to do this but Christianity was pretty much plagiarized, entirely. If anyone with half a workable brain looks at the anicent Egyptian religion of Egypt that of Horus, will see that it's very VERY similar to that of the bible.
Also the entire religion is based around astronomy, it's used to describe the sun & the celestial bodies of the sky (the zodiac signs). So if you actually have the guts to look at these 3 ~10min videos you will see all the proof & if you still think Jesus was real & that god DOES exist, well my fellow human, you are beyond repair.
Name of the videos are "sun gods: history of religion part 1of 3" they are on you tube.
Have a good day gentlemen.
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Fayte87 wrote...
Freaky Green wrote...
@ Maxiart, For something to be consider part existence it must be detected by one or more of the 6 senses which are sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, and thought. God is thought of therefore he exist.Thought isn't one the senses.
Thought is the legendary sixth sense, because thought pretty much controls all other senses and if you train your mind you would be able to sharpen your other senses to superhuman.
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PCheaf wrote...
It's not you're business, believe or not believing is something that is personal and not up to public debate, you're getting involved when you're not asked to.
I don't have to be asked to for it to be my business. If two people vote to outlaw homosexual marriage are you seriously saying, "Well they believe what they believe, it's not up for public debate because they didn't ask your opinion."? If so, you're retarded, and shouldn't ever take part in any discussion ever.
And...
Dear Atheist/Agnostic I know you think it's a feat that you managed to shake off religion, but it's not, you were born in times of religious apathy and there wasn't much to shake off to begin with.
Dear Atheist/Agnostic I know you think it's a feat that you managed to shake off religion, but it's not, you were born in times of religious apathy and there wasn't much to shake off to begin with.
Unless you live in North Korea, Afghanistan and few other wonderful places you can't deny that this is as best as religion apathy has being before.
Watch me. I deny that this is as best as religion apathy has being before.
That was awful grammar and it made it hard to understand wtf you were saying. But the fact is...you're wrong.
Less people go to church/mosques and especially at younger population the % took a nosedive. The numbers of "semi" religious people are massive, the type that doesn't pray, goes church/mosque once/twich a year, doesn't follow their churches dogma.
This is the pinnacle of religious apathy.
This is the pinnacle of religious apathy.
No, the pinnacle of religious apathy is when nobody, at all, takes religion seriously. When you have people making up their own fake institutes to try and push religion in class rooms, separation of church and state issues every day, instances of atheists being discriminated against in the public(I have a video going over a vast number of examples if you'd like to see), as well as people making documenteries and museums trying to say, "EVOLUTION IS A LIE!" When you try and tell me this is 'religious apathy' all I can do is laugh in your ignorant face. And if this IS the best it gets? I weep for the world.
I'd just rather if both parties just kept it to themselves.
Believe(or not) in what you want, just don't make it involve anyone else.
And if that goes against you belief... like let's say abortion.
Preached by Catholic Church that it's murder, many believers want the law to change accordingly(banning it).Well... tough titties, if they can make a reasonable argument supported with facts and not preaching by all mean change the law, until then keep it to yourself, your opinions is irrelevant.
And the Catholic Church will tell you, "How dare you tell us that our beliefs about abortion being murder aren't factual You can go ahead and believe it's not if you want but the FACT is it is. And it's immoral, and there should be laws against it."
In accordance to your post modernistic "Let everyone believe whatever and don't ever argue because that's mean" attitude, you HAVE to concede that if they believe abortion to be murder and want to outlaw it...then they get to do that. And not only that, but they should be able to do it based on the fact that there's way more of them in the united states.
Seems a made poor choice of words and didn't get through .
I meant believe in what you want, but don't involve others.(used "me" as the example)
And my retort still holds. Nobody's getting on anyone's lawn(aside from Jehovah's witnesses and mormons). We're all going onto public property And vetting our ideas and beliefs against each other in coming up with the best way to live, and in the effort of GIVING A SHIT if what we believe is true or not.
And you're coming in the middle of all of this and saying, "Everyone stop doing this because it annoys ME." Well who the hell are you?
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Freaky Green wrote...
Fayte87 wrote...
Freaky Green wrote...
@ Maxiart, For something to be consider part existence it must be detected by one or more of the 6 senses which are sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, and thought. God is thought of therefore he exist.Thought isn't one the senses.
Thought is the legendary sixth sense, because thought pretty much controls all other senses and if you train your mind you would be able to sharpen your other senses to superhuman.
That doesn't even make any senses ... (no pun intended) .
Senses definition :
Senses are physiological capacities of organisms that provide data for perception .
Thought is not a sense since it doesn't provide you any data for perception , thoughts (the brain) is the machine that transform stimulis into perception . How could the machine be his own product ?
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lordisgaea3 wrote...
Freaky Green wrote...
Fayte87 wrote...
Freaky Green wrote...
@ Maxiart, For something to be consider part existence it must be detected by one or more of the 6 senses which are sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, and thought. God is thought of therefore he exist.Thought isn't one the senses.
Thought is the legendary sixth sense, because thought pretty much controls all other senses and if you train your mind you would be able to sharpen your other senses to superhuman.
That doesn't even make any senses ... (no pun intended) .
Senses definition :
Senses are physiological capacities of organisms that provide data for perception .
Thought is not a sense since it doesn't provide you any data for perception , thoughts (the brain) is the machine that transform stimulis into perception . How could the machine be his own product ?
No need to be so specific just go with it okay, and by the way this sort thing happens often when understanding Taoism its really complicated. Just think it like this
"Those who enslave others eventually become slaves themselves" -Star Wars The Clone Wars-
Different themes but same concept.
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Freaky Green wrote...
lordisgaea3 wrote...
Freaky Green wrote...
Fayte87 wrote...
Freaky Green wrote...
@ Maxiart, For something to be consider part existence it must be detected by one or more of the 6 senses which are sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, and thought. God is thought of therefore he exist.Thought isn't one the senses.
Thought is the legendary sixth sense, because thought pretty much controls all other senses and if you train your mind you would be able to sharpen your other senses to superhuman.
That doesn't even make any senses ... (no pun intended) .
Senses definition :
Senses are physiological capacities of organisms that provide data for perception .
Thought is not a sense since it doesn't provide you any data for perception , thoughts (the brain) is the machine that transform stimulis into perception . How could the machine be his own product ?
No need to be so specific just go with it okay, and by the way this sort thing happens often when understanding Taoism its really complicated. Just think it like this
"Those who enslave others eventually become slaves themselves" -Star Wars The Clone Wars-
Different themes but same concept.
Oh ok it's my misunderstanding , i tought you were saying as a fact that there was a 6th sense , not as a faith ...
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I'm with Andrew Ryan!
" I believe in no God, no invisible man in the sky. But there is something more powerful than each of us, a combination of our efforts, a Great Chain of industry that unites us. But it is only when we struggle in our own interest that the chain pulls society in the right direction. The chain is too powerful and too mysterious for any government to guide. Any man who tells you different either has his hand in your pocket, or a pistol to your neck."
" I believe in no God, no invisible man in the sky. But there is something more powerful than each of us, a combination of our efforts, a Great Chain of industry that unites us. But it is only when we struggle in our own interest that the chain pulls society in the right direction. The chain is too powerful and too mysterious for any government to guide. Any man who tells you different either has his hand in your pocket, or a pistol to your neck."
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Freaky Green wrote...
No need to be so specific just go with it okay, and by the way this sort thing happens often when understanding Taoism its really complicated. Just think it like this
"Those who enslave others eventually become slaves themselves" -Star Wars The Clone Wars-
Different themes but same concept.
Dude, I know Taoists. And that's not Taoism. That's the religion of the Jedi(Admittedly, it's loosely based on Taoism, but not that part).
Taoism has nothing to do with training one's 'thoughts' to make their senses 'superhuman' nor does anything within Taoism teach that this is some sort of metaphysical case of the matter. Taoism is more a philosophy of life than a philosophy of mind.
Taoism is, and only is, basing your life on following the "way". The "way" is what you feel is the place you are supposed to be, the state of mind you're supposed to be in, what place in society you feel like you're supposed to be in. Following the "way" until you feel completely settled within your life as to being everywhere that you're supposed to be, in harmony with your surroundings.
As far as 'thought' goes, the mind is treated simply as another organ that needs to be maintained in Taoism, not as something you 'train up to help your senses become superhuman'. Mental health is stressed over any sort of 'woo' concept of making your thoughts make your senses powerful.
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BigLundi wrote...
Freaky Green wrote...
No need to be so specific just go with it okay, and by the way this sort thing happens often when understanding Taoism its really complicated. Just think it like this
"Those who enslave others eventually become slaves themselves" -Star Wars The Clone Wars-
Different themes but same concept.
Dude, I know Taoists. And that's not Taoism. That's the religion of the Jedi(Admittedly, it's loosely based on Taoism, but not that part).
Taoism has nothing to do with training one's 'thoughts' to make their senses 'superhuman' nor does anything within Taoism teach that this is some sort of metaphysical case of the matter. Taoism is more a philosophy of life than a philosophy of mind.
Taoism is, and only is, basing your life on following the "way". The "way" is what you feel is the place you are supposed to be, the state of mind you're supposed to be in, what place in society you feel like you're supposed to be in. Following the "way" until you feel completely settled within your life as to being everywhere that you're supposed to be, in harmony with your surroundings.
As far as 'thought' goes, the mind is treated simply as another organ that needs to be maintained in Taoism, not as something you 'train up to help your senses become superhuman'. Mental health is stressed over any sort of 'woo' concept of making your thoughts make your senses powerful.
Okay I can see that there is a misunderstanding here. Correct me if I am wrong but Taoism usually involves understanding the nature of yin,yang, and the Tao. Fiction, or thought, and reality are opposite of each other and therefore are branches of yin yang. That star wars thing was only an analogy because the nature of yin yang is ultimately the coexistence of opposites, which includes the opposite of an opposite. And i didn't say training the mind is part of Taoism it more of a side effect cuz Taoists usually practice tai-chi or other meditations that will cause there senses to be heighten, usually. Hope this misunderstanding is resolve.
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Freaky Green wrote...
Okay I can see that there is a misunderstanding here. Correct me if I am wrong
I'll be glad to.
but Taoism usually involves understanding the nature of yin,yang
No. Glad we could clear that up.
, and the Tao.
Which is also known as 'the way' or 'the pathway'. Or, more contemporaneously, as "Nature".
Fiction, or thought
Neither of which are even close to the same thing as each other.
, and reality are opposite of each other and therefore are branches of yin yang.
NO! As a matter of fact, Taoism denotes that thought, the mind, and body, and reality, are in fact NOT in opposition to each other, but all subsets of the whole that is existence. They go together, they help each other, and are in fact, not opposing forces in any way at all. That's what Taoism...states.
That star wars thing was only an analogy because the nature of yin yang is ultimately the coexistence of opposites, which includes the opposite of an opposite.
I mentioned star wars because it is in fact true that the Jedi religion is, actually, based off of Taoism, loosely.
And i didn't say training the mind is part of Taoism it more of a side effect cuz Taoists usually practice tai-chi or other meditations that will cause there senses to be heighten, usually. Hope this misunderstanding is resolve.
It's your misunderstanding, not mine. I've read the literature on the subject, I'm practiced in understanding many philosophies around the world, and I can safely say, that what you're doing is combining three different asian philosophies together and calling it Taoism, where it's not.
You're taking ancient chinese pantheon religions which focus on gods and goddesses and spirituality that focus on concepts like yin and yang, combining it with philosophical concepts from Buddhism, and Taoism, and merging them together to create this bastardized version of Taoism you think you're subscribing to.
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BigLundi wrote...
Freaky Green wrote...
Okay I can see that there is a misunderstanding here. Correct me if I am wrong
I'll be glad to.
but Taoism usually involves understanding the nature of yin,yang
No. Glad we could clear that up.
, and the Tao.
Which is also known as 'the way' or 'the pathway'. Or, more contemporaneously, as "Nature".
Fiction, or thought
Neither of which are even close to the same thing as each other.
, and reality are opposite of each other and therefore are branches of yin yang.
NO! As a matter of fact, Taoism denotes that thought, the mind, and body, and reality, are in fact NOT in opposition to each other, but all subsets of the whole that is existence. They go together, they help each other, and are in fact, not opposing forces in any way at all. That's what Taoism...states.
That star wars thing was only an analogy because the nature of yin yang is ultimately the coexistence of opposites, which includes the opposite of an opposite.
I mentioned star wars because it is in fact true that the Jedi religion is, actually, based off of Taoism, loosely.
And i didn't say training the mind is part of Taoism it more of a side effect cuz Taoists usually practice tai-chi or other meditations that will cause there senses to be heighten, usually. Hope this misunderstanding is resolve.
It's your misunderstanding, not mine. I've read the literature on the subject, I'm practiced in understanding many philosophies around the world, and I can safely say, that what you're doing is combining three different asian philosophies together and calling it Taoism, where it's not.
You're taking ancient chinese pantheon religions which focus on gods and goddesses and spirituality that focus on concepts like yin and yang, combining it with philosophical concepts from Buddhism, and Taoism, and merging them together to create this bastardized version of Taoism you think you're subscribing to.
Hmmmm I see you were right about my misunderstanding and I must apologize. Well I can tell you that my ideals are mostly based on Taoism, by the way thought and fiction are related and I can see now that I should have said imagination, and i disagree with how Taoists say that the mind and body aren't opposites and how they desire peace so badly which follows under the branches of yin yang, and I have no intent to mixing up religions because I am actually more a hybrid of atheist and Taoist. Now we are clear.
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Thought and fiction are not related.
The only thing between the two is a possibility construct, that fiction is a product of thought, but that thought doesn't always prescribe fiction.
But that doesn't make them related, nonfiction is ALSO related to thought. Without thought you cannot comprehend abstracts that are true. Such as what makes something a chair. It's not fiction that a chair is a chair, but without thought, there's no possible way to comprehend this abstract concept.
I know this off topic but this pseudo philosophical view of, "Thoughts and fiction are kind of the same thing" makes no sense at all. And please don't write this off as me 'just not getting it' because there's nothing to get. I'm telling you that you're fundamentally wrong on this point.
Also, I'd like to point out that atheism isn't a 'philosophy'. IT's purely and simply, not believing in gods.
Taoism is compatible with both atheism and theism. There's a pantheon of ancestor worship within Taoism where ancestors that are considered great thinkers are revered as such.
You can ALSO, if you feel this is your own personal Tao, accept ancestor worship as actual gods, or, even, believe in your own personal concept of a god, if you feel that this is what you're supposed to do, in order to follow your Tao to the fullest.
I'm sorry but I know Taoists that are extremely advanced in philosophy that I admire, and it makes my head spin when you mischaracterize what Taoism is...hell someone took it to simply mean, from what you said, that it's 'just a religious belief'. And that makes me sad. Because while I'm not a Taoist, I respect Taoism, and I respect it too much for you to talk about it in a way that is...exceedingly ignorant.
The only thing between the two is a possibility construct, that fiction is a product of thought, but that thought doesn't always prescribe fiction.
But that doesn't make them related, nonfiction is ALSO related to thought. Without thought you cannot comprehend abstracts that are true. Such as what makes something a chair. It's not fiction that a chair is a chair, but without thought, there's no possible way to comprehend this abstract concept.
I know this off topic but this pseudo philosophical view of, "Thoughts and fiction are kind of the same thing" makes no sense at all. And please don't write this off as me 'just not getting it' because there's nothing to get. I'm telling you that you're fundamentally wrong on this point.
Also, I'd like to point out that atheism isn't a 'philosophy'. IT's purely and simply, not believing in gods.
Taoism is compatible with both atheism and theism. There's a pantheon of ancestor worship within Taoism where ancestors that are considered great thinkers are revered as such.
You can ALSO, if you feel this is your own personal Tao, accept ancestor worship as actual gods, or, even, believe in your own personal concept of a god, if you feel that this is what you're supposed to do, in order to follow your Tao to the fullest.
I'm sorry but I know Taoists that are extremely advanced in philosophy that I admire, and it makes my head spin when you mischaracterize what Taoism is...hell someone took it to simply mean, from what you said, that it's 'just a religious belief'. And that makes me sad. Because while I'm not a Taoist, I respect Taoism, and I respect it too much for you to talk about it in a way that is...exceedingly ignorant.
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Sorry to get you all hot blooded, and I did say that I should have used imagination instead of thought, fiction. And I did apologize. And I know atheism isn't philosophy. When I say I was a hybrid of an atheist and Taoist I really meant that I believe the ideals of an atheist and a Taoist, mostly. Is there any other misinterpretation that needs to be clear?
Scratch out imagination. It would be better if I just say state of mind. I am trying to refer to mind as being abstract and the other senses as physical. And by the way I am not referring Taoism as a religious view, on purpose, if that's what you implying.
Scratch out imagination. It would be better if I just say state of mind. I am trying to refer to mind as being abstract and the other senses as physical. And by the way I am not referring Taoism as a religious view, on purpose, if that's what you implying.
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I believe that the persons background would be the determining factor in that decision. Depending on their past and where they have been and the problems they had, and the pain along with the miracles they have encountered in their life. I say miracles because there are miracles that happen in people's life. In my case I believe in god. But my god a kind god that cares for us all in his own way that watches us and is there for us when he needs us. But that's just me. God only works for those who need "it".
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blue_sparrow wrote...
I believe that the persons background would be the determining factor in that decision. Depending on their past and where they have been and the problems they had, and the pain along with the miracles they have encountered in their life. I say miracles because there are miracles that happen in people's life. In my case I believe in god. But my god a kind god that cares for us all in his own way that watches us and is there for us when he needs us. But that's just me. God only works for those who need "it".What about those millions of people that die daily because they have no water or food? They need "god" or help rather, yet they receive close to none.
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bringontheporn wrote...
blue_sparrow wrote...
I believe that the persons background would be the determining factor in that decision. Depending on their past and where they have been and the problems they had, and the pain along with the miracles they have encountered in their life. I say miracles because there are miracles that happen in people's life. In my case I believe in god. But my god a kind god that cares for us all in his own way that watches us and is there for us when he needs us. But that's just me. God only works for those who need "it".What about those millions of people that die daily because they have no water or food? They need "god" or help rather, yet they receive close to none.
That's where the miracle comes into play here. In Christianity they will reach out to other people in need.
In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war fathers bury their sons!
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blue_sparrow wrote...
bringontheporn wrote...
blue_sparrow wrote...
I believe that the persons background would be the determining factor in that decision. Depending on their past and where they have been and the problems they had, and the pain along with the miracles they have encountered in their life. I say miracles because there are miracles that happen in people's life. In my case I believe in god. But my god a kind god that cares for us all in his own way that watches us and is there for us when he needs us. But that's just me. God only works for those who need "it".What about those millions of people that die daily because they have no water or food? They need "god" or help rather, yet they receive close to none.
That's where the miracle comes into play here. In Christianity they will reach out to other people in need.
yet they all keep dying? It's like I said before, weather you believe in god or not doesn't matter because he doesn't exist. If you care enough to have a look go back one page & you'll see my reply