Strike!

I see what you're getting at, but the sentence could just as easily be a general statement Garm is making about the city, which was my intention.



Didn't think it needed clarifying. I liken the Hounds' leader to a king in the previous paragraph while all I mention of the Sabers is that they've started gathering momentum.

As the first commenter on most stories I couldn't help myself to be curious about your entry so I went to search for your thread among so many and found it!~~

I have a few questions as I always do when I read stories.
In what time does it take place? it is modern? it is medieval. I couldn't rly figure it out. I couldn't help but read some of leo's comment about gangs but it never stroke me once that it was about gangs? Also words like upper class, king, and merchants did make me disagree more with the gang theory since I don't feel like they fit? I might be over thinking things. About the gods are we in mythological or do these 'god'-like people exist? Was supernatural a genre or is he thinking about the myth, rumours like the old northern gods before Christians?

Honestly speaking I was a bit confused about the story, about what was going on and when and where it was taking place. I did like your name choices and the dialogue.

I'm sorry I can't say any more constructive things but I was left with so many questions. But If I understood this right you tried to write in another style too? Nice go if it was your first time~ ^^)/

Thank you.



It's medieval-esque for sure. Now that I think about it, I didn't flesh out the setting as well as I could or should have.



Really? I thought it was pretty obvious. I talk about them in the story in several places.



They fit within a certain context. Garm brings up the upper class and the merchant class, saying that if you aren't born in them, then you're best option is to join a gang.



It's a common belief in this world that there are gods, but there's no proof that they actually exist. Yet.

I don't know if you saw one of my previous posts in this topic, but I mention that I will be posting a revised version of this story in the coming days that should be not as confusing. I hope you'll check it out.



Don't worry about it.



Actually, it's not my first time writing in 1st person. I have done one other story in this perspective. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read my entry.

Oh interesting! I will definitely do my best to remember to come back to read the revived version.

The contest is over and as promised, I've got some new things to share. First up is a new draft of the original contest entry. When I first wrote it, I made the mistake of taking a past idea and forcing the theme of the contest on it. The latest draft is no longer constrained by that or the 2000 word limit. I make use of over 70 extra words!

Leonard, if you read it, you'll notice it's different from the one I sent you. Mainly, I added back in some dialogue that I cut. This ties in to a criticism that y00han had about too much talking. As Leonard can attest if he read this other draft that I sent him, I tried doing it without so much talking, and I just didn't like it. I think it adds an extra dimension to the story that it loses when you remove it.

Y00han, I also put thought into your point about Garm being unrealistic. In the end, I decided to leave him as is. Sorry, but that's just who he is, and if it turns people off, than I accept that.

Perhaps the biggest change from the first draft to the latest one is that I tried to make it easier to understand what was going on, which seemed to me to be the biggest complaint. However, hopefully if you thought the story was just fine in terms of the way it was told before, you'll still enjoy it. I tried adding explanations in a way that isn't overly intrusive. I hope I succeeded.

Next up, you'll notice that I also have the sequel I mentioned up. It's about twice as long as the original story, and focuses on Viktor, Garm's friend and fellow gang member. It also has more Tara, another of Garm's comrade-in-arms, and advances the gang war plot line from the original story in a big way.

You also may have noticed that this thread has been re-purposed from a contest entry into something much bigger. I've been doing a lot of brainstorming, and I've got so much more to share about these characters. I hope you'll check it all out and tell me what you think.

Specific fixes contained in the writing sent over email.

There are some clear issues with this story. It has some nice upsides, a unique back-story and individual lore, including the mystical aspect of fantasy with interesting key personalities. However, the dialogue between some characters is awkward and perhaps even totally unnecessary. Some leave you wondering why certain responses escalated and others have questionable logical bearing. I think certain exchanges might have been more useful as being much shorter, leaving you more room to expound upon the whole point of the story. The fact that Garm chooses to omit any kind of lesson at the end of his narrative is clever if the story is continuing, but the point of the limit and theme is to wrap it up and leave something within the reader. What do I feel this story left me with? An appreciation of a unique fantasy setting and also to some degree Garm’s flippant and casual attitude. Is that enough for you as an author considering the story and theme?

Also inserting a side comment in the story: The logical issue with regards to lightning striking and blood scattering is that lightning and intensive fire cauterizes wounds nearly instantly. There would likely not be any bloodshed at all, it would all be burnt and scarred. That is, of course, if it really was lightning and they weren't mistaking it for lightning.

Also, I didn't mention this but apparently this is a medieval setting. I was reading it internally as if it was modern day gang fighting, even considering it was probably a world conjured from fantasy.

As I mention in the post above yours, this was an idea I previously had that I sorta kinda not really forced to fit the contest. The result of that decision speaks for itself. The new draft fixes issues with the payoff of the story, but it pretty much obliterates the theme of the contest. At this point, I thought screw it.



That's a good point. I never thought of that before. Thankfully, the nature of lightning doesn't actual come into play.



xhimitsu mentioned that as well. Annnnnnnnd I totally forget about it. More editing!

I'd say thanks for taking the time to read it, but it was kind of your job. Oh well. Thanks anyway.

When I read that, it all became very clear why the issues that we found were there. Unfortunately, they did inhibit you from placing well in our assessment, but that tends to be the case with entries that are made grander than the contest limits. It's nice to know that you intend to take this even further, however.

About why I read it as if it was a modern setting, it might have been Garm's internal informal and casual narrative that had me thinking that way, but that might just have been a presumptuous reader's error on my part.



It was indeed and I treated it as such, but thanks are much appreciated. You're most welcome.

Feel free to post anything here in a quote if you want to defend your reasons or talk about certain things I said in the .docx. I'd be open to clarifying or discussing with you.

Lesson learned. Next year, I'll do what I did the first time around. Build something from the ground up around the theme.



There's that (because I have no idea how medieval gangsters talked), but as xhimitsu pointed out, I do very little to describe the setting. Probably what I'll end up doing is throwing in a couple of tidbits here and there that make it clear what time period the world is approximately in.



There isn't much. The big ones you already mentioned in your previous post.



There's this. I'm interested in knowing what images their names invoked for you.



I would argue that it's indicative of Xander's confidence in their abilities. As we see later on, Garm does dodge a bullet. Literally.



What I mean is the sun's completely down now. When I hear that something is out in force, like the police, I imagine large numbers. Also, because the word 'force' is typically associated with violence, for me it conjures the feeling that something unpleasant is going to happen.



Really, man? One typo!

AND that's about it. By the way, Garm would be very hurt by what you said in the email.

I imagine something akin to a symbolic Aphrodite, or perhaps similar to a succubus vixen like Lilith. She seems to be vengeful, chaotic, and seductive, an interesting concept.



The interesting juxtaposition with the mention of celestial light along with damnation and blood creates the image of a flaming demon with sword and claws dripping with blood, and yet perhaps his motive is retribution against the wicked as a carrier of celestial light. Perhaps similar to Imperius from Diablo 3.

There is also Valenus, but they're only touched upon in passing as a curse.



I suppose reading about Xander walking up to them (or however he suddenly appears) without calling attention immediately in a hurry has me critical. They might miss their mark if information arrives too slowly. Obviously you avoid this as an author, but I as a reader say "Why do you just waltz in and say that if they have places to be, people to kill?"



An interesting approach, but consider the wholesomeness of the night. Police can be imagined in force because it, as you say, implies large numbers. However, night is wholesome and complete, it is one entity and thus imagining night to increase "in numbers" is a difficult concept to grasp.







I affixed it at the bottom of the .docx too. Here I am excited to hear what lesson he has to share about his interesting and unique life and then...



Garm, you asshole, that was the whole point of the theme! It's like on one corner we have leonard doing nothing but talking about morals the whole way through, and then in this corner we have Garm who refuses to talk about them at all. If he wants to withhold them for future chapters, that's interesting, but here I sit in this judge box with gavel in hand and this is his defense? To the cell with you! 30 years!

There'll be much more on Valenus and all of the gods in the story that this world was originally made for, but I don't plan on working on it in earnest until a good long while from now. It's going to be something that I'll actually try and get published. And by that, I mean I'll send it out to a bunch of people who will probably reject it.

Valenus is the lord of Breath, Verdant Valleys, and Life by the way.



Point taken.



It doesn't always imply large numbers. It can also imply some quality that's reached an extreme of sorts. There are different stages of the night. When the sun's pretty much set but there's still some light left to see, it's still night, but it's different from when it's pitch black out except for the stars, the moon, and street lamps or whatever, so to say night has descended in force means that it has reached the stage where it's not gonna get any darker.

I'm surprised you've never heard of this before. I didn't just make this phrase up myself.



If it makes you feel better, you can find out more about his interesting life in the sequel.



You're lucky Garm's such a nice guy else you'd have watch your back from now on.

Neat. I imagine this thing when it comes to that.



To be honest, I didn't exactly make it a strike against you specifically, but I think the reason I haven't heard of it used in that fashion is because it never is, at least as far as I'm aware. If you can find some sort of source for it used on a non-tangible concept, I will concede to your freedom of use, but for everything I'm finding on the idiom is that it's reserved for something "in great strength or numbers" or if a law is still "in force" as in enforced. Now, you may choose to pick that apart and say "well, it also says 'in great strength,' which night can surely be" and I agree with you there. Night can be strong or weak in the case of midnight or dusk. However, all the examples of the idiom's use that I can find are listed with solid objects:

"In a very large group."
"The entire group arrived in force."
"The mosquitoes will attack in force this evening."
"Birdwatchers were out in force."
"Demonstrators were out in force."

Now, I'm not wagging my finger and saying you can't twist the rules of English however way you want. Authors are allowed to do that as our language is susceptible to evolution. I honestly appreciate the gumption if I find it, like coining new terms or phrases, but I also must uphold the proper current use in order to set a precedent.



I will be looking forward to it.



That's all he wants, right? To be loved and not have to kill? Well, if it makes him feel any better, I was substituting him for you since I didn't really want to call you an asshole for writing that conclusion. Would be slightly rude, but it was very leonard of you.

Screw you. I've seen it used before in the manner I speak of. I don't remember where, and Google has failed me, but it exists!



You know I already added it to the opening post, right?



You did not just . . .

I didn't. I really wish you'd just make a new thread and leave the original with its title in-tact. The main contest thread will always lead to here, after all, and I don't want people next year to look at your entry via the contest page and find this thread, then they'll say "Wow, how can I compete with this d()()d, he's like, such a pro at writing. How did such a large and awesome entry get accepted and why doesn't the thread have the required brackets and year? I couldn't find it in the forum search because they're gone even though I also know that the forum search is actually pretty bad anyway and what on earth does original draft mean, why can't I be as good as him? This is like a whole series, this isn't fair..." and on and on, I'll get so many complaints.

Problem solved.

The whole time I was reading, I thought I was reading some kind of futuristic-fantasy mashup. Now that I know you intended it to be set in a Medieval era, the setting makes a bit more sense. That said, I felt the setting could've been fleshed out (as I think you already said earlier i the comments). Your story thrives on a rich setting for your characters to take part in, and by not having the solid foundation, I think it ended up hurting the overall experience.

As for the plot and structure, unlike leonard, I was able to follow the story relatively easily. I was able to keep up with the gangs, and most of the characters, and at no point was I too confused.

Honestly, as inept as it may sound, I thought that this piece lacked some of your characteristic 'umph'. It just felt like this story was not what you wanted to write. It read like you wanted to do more, as if this was written to be a series instead of a short story.



Well that puts things into perspective. One of the biggest problems I had with your story was that it felt like a puzzle piece that was being jammed into the wrong slot. And to further the analogy, it felt incomplete, and for good reason as it would seem since I see a sequel.

I will say that the gang wars that you've got going on was fun to read and was pretty immersive. And some of these characters, namely Raven, are very mysterious in a good kind of way. It makes me want to know more about their history as well as the history of the town that they are in.

Not the hint I am referring to. Martin introduces The Others without any warning.

I quote:

"Down below, the lordling called out suddenly, “Who goes there?” Will heard uncertainty in the challenge. He stopped climbing; he listened; he watched.
The woods gave answer: the rustle of leaves, the icy rush of the stream, a distant hoot of a snow owl.

The Others made no sound."

Where did that come from?!


I could have written something like,

"Out of the corner of Royce's eye appeared an emaciated figure who looked a bit like a moving ice sculpture. They are creatures out of the nanny stories Royce was accustomed to listening to (even at the age of 18) and were never properly named. It was said that those who encountered them were either turned into one of their kind or spirited away. All those who heard that nanny story must have cried, "UDDERS" after listening to their nannies describing that creature. Since it would be too crass to christen those near mythical creatures as Udders, the nanny teat suckling inhabitants of Westeros decided to refer to them as Others."

At least these monsters are given an introduction. (There, part of the Song of Ice and Fire parody completed!)


Back to topic, thank you for the second draft. It made much more sense than the first. The descriptions of Tara, Xander et. al qualify as introductions that I could understand. So too were the motivations of the characters chiefly the gang wars between the Hounds and the Sabers. With that, I can understand the story.

I know. I can't believe I even made that mistake. It feels like such a stupid thing to do in retrospect. And I kinda did it again in the second story of this contest entry turned project.



I didn't even know I have umph. Thanks.



In that case, you should totally read the 2nd story and the third one when I get done with it.



Ah, I thought you were talking about who the Others are, not where they came from. I'd have to read it again before saying anything on what I think of their sudden appearance.



All right. Progress. I don't think I've mentioned what I hope to get out of this, have I? That is, adopting a more explanatory style. I hate to say it, but it's not impress you. In short, I want to improve myself as a writer by expanding my style. As I said before, this could amount to nothing more than a fun experiment, and then I revert back to the way I did things before, or it could have a lasting impact. I haven't decided yet.

The use of swords makes it easier, but Warhammer 40k also uses swords, so who knows? I think this error is in part caused because you love to withhold physical description unless it's mentioned in passing. Try describing tabards, crests, and sconces, items typical of a Medieval setting, perhaps?

---

Hm, relating to the second chapter, I can say it's pretty enthralling. Perhaps a bit cliche, Viktor's story, but I've always appreciated things more romantic, yet doomed. Cliched for a reason, it works. I only wonder why we currently know more about Viktor than Garm, perhaps it was too early to go into all the exposition of his life before we know much? Or did you make that many changes in the second draft that I should give it a look over as well? I didn't bother, but if you tell me to, I will.

That said, this chapter definitely adds enough to see this as a series worth your continued efforts. Well done, keep going.

Below are my notes.



Ugh, this reverse quotation. Repulsive. That happens when you place it after an em dash. Want to know a trick I use? Place it after the “is” and then copy-paste it over.



have to* take him



Haha...quench their first.



Period.



I think this needs a second look.



"as the daemons are won't to say." I think that needs a re-write or something, do you mean "want?" Also, hilarious implied racism.

That's exactly what I have in mind.



With regard to story, you might want to read the last scene. It's pretty different as I said before, and, in my opinion, much more satisfying than Garm telling you there's no lessons to learn. However, I didn't make any major changes beyond that.

Honestly, the only reason I can give for revealing more about Viktor's past than Garm's is it's just the way I felt like doing things. More will be revealed about Garm in due time. And Tara and Raven as well some other characters that haven't been introduced yet.



I'll keep that in mind.



Not really. When I say daemons, I mean a race of demon-like people with horns and colored skin, but that's a whole other can of worms.



Thanks. I hope you'll continue to read it.