Echo's Estate

Maybe, when do you leave?

Friday.

How about a rant on your preferences on women? Or once again, that rant on pants. Yus, rhymes... still got it!

As there has been somewhat of a call for another rant, which by the way I am greatly pleased that people like them. And now I have recently ran into another instance of something that has really really bugged me for the longest time so I figured this would be a good time for a new rant. Please enjoy and feel free to post your own comments.

ECHO RANTS!!!!

Some of you guys play visual novels right? I love visual novels myself. They have so much to offer. Like what is likely some of the best story telling ever. They pair this with emotional music and clean visuals and its just a experience beyond any other means of story telling. In my opinion that is. Another thing that is extremely common in visual novels is sex scenes. Many games that don't really need them still have them and thats perfectly fine. No one says you have to be playing it for the sex scenes. Maybe its a game like Muv Luv and you are really there to see the story play out. So it has sex scenes, who cares right? no big deal?

Well apparently its a major deal for for western releases. This is especially true of Steam. I downright refuse to play any visual novel through Steam. These people have such a prudish attitude towards sexual content that it truly sickens me. Did you know that even when there is no nudity allowed on Steam that they still have a nudity tag? Its like them saying "oh hey this game might be too much for your pure eyes beacuse it has sexual situations. Please be warned"

You might find your self saying "why does it matter if there is no sex scenes? didn't you say that they aren't needed for a bunch of games?" Well I would like to bring your attention to one particular example I remember reading about. I forget the name of the VN but I remember finding out that the fan release of this game. Meaning a fan translated version of the original Japanese release. This release of the game was about 4 GB. Then the Steam release of the game was 2 GB. The person explaining all this went on to clarify why this was so. Not only were all the sex scenes removed, but any scene with any sort of sexual connotation was also removed. Thats any kind of sexual joke or reference or any situation that could be taken in a sexual context. The people who released the Steam version of this game literally removed half of the initial game.

How is that ok? How can you approve of that? You could say that it was an isolated incident and that it doesn't happen to the majority of games which could be true for all I know. The point hasn't changed though, visual novels and other games as well are having sexuality removed from them. The prudish and puritan culture that countries like the United States seem to drown in has decided that the perfectly natural and crucial part of human existence that is sex is too horrid for people to witness. These cultures clearly think that violence, violence to an extreme level even, is more acceptable then sex. Games with gratuitous amounts of violence where the whole point of the game is to kill things, to kill people, to commit murder. This is acceptable. What is not acceptable is having a scene where two people (often times people in a mutal relationship) engage in the most wonderful act humanity has to offer. The act that literally brings new life to the world and fills us with joy. This is not ok.

That is what I think of every time I see sexuality censored in video games. Taking life is encouraged but giving life is not. I will never in my whole life understand this view. Now don't get me wrong, I like my games with lots of sex AND lots of violence but that still doesn't change the fact that violent games are not viewed in the same way as sexual games are. I need to move on because my brain will just explode if I think about why violence is fine but sex isn't any more.

To look at things from the other side, I guess I talk about the best explanation I ever got for why sexuality might be censored. This example is my talking to a friend of mine about League of Legends. I learned that the champ Sejuani when she was first released had a bikini like top for her outfit. Now of course she is completely covered. I asked my friend why did they change it? He said because it was too sexualized. I pointed out that there are characters like Morgana that also wear bikini tops. He said "But Morgana is a fallen angel that outfit makes more sense for her. Sejuani is a warrior from the frozen north it doesn't make sense for her to have such revealing clothes."

His point basically being that what matters more is not really the sexualization itself, but more so, the context in which its happening. Fallen angels are connected with darkness and sin. Sin is of course linked to things like lust and there for connected to revealing outfits. The lore of Morgana's character supports the idea of her wearing a revealing outfit. So my friend says that this is not the case for Sejuani. Her wearing a bikini is just unnecessary objectifying. I do understand his point and now that I look at other games I see his point being proven multiple times. Characters that are "supposed to be" linked with sexuality aren't censored. Its everyone else, like your normal every day girl that just happens to have a giant rack, that are censored.

I can't tell you the number of times I have gotten on to a forum for a mmorpg and I see threads of people complaining that the women in the game are too sexual or that the outfits are too revealing. The only think I can think about the people that make these threads (other then the real possibility that they are just hardcore trolls) is that they are fanatical feminists. I mean, I'm certainly willing to admit that I am rather perverted but I have talked with other men that aren't. These guys don't care, they don't care what the women look like. They play the game just for the gameplay and the visuals couldn't affect them less. These seem to be the only two groups. Either they like sexualization (beacuse sexy women are awesome) or they don't really give a shit.

The number of people that are sincerely outraged by "objectifying" women in video games appears to be a very minuscule, yet very loud, minority. Every time I see them though I can't help but ponder what goes through their minds. Like I know I have heard a argument before that seeing super model level attractive women everywhere in the media ruins the self image of young girls. Im not about to say that isn't true because I don't really know. Maybe it is true. But what I do want to ask is what young girls are going to be playing these kinds of games?

Lets take Tera for example. Tera is a mmorpg that has been widely known for its incredibly sexual outfits for its female characters. I want to know, like seriously, I want to meet any young girls that are really into playing Tera. While you have mass media and advertising that is all over TV and billboards and places that you are likely to see anyway. The depiction of a character inside of a certain video game,that isn't at all marketed for girls and that doesn't have near the same mass media presence, this is going to ruin the self image of young girls?

Lets not kid ourselves here, video games are escapism. They are a way for us to leave our miserable lives and immerse ourselves in a fantasy world. Now lets take that and realize that the game industry is a business that seeks to make money. How do you make money? You find your target audience and you make your product appealing to them, this way they will buy it. Video games have always had a much higher ratio of male players vs female players. This is especially true of young men in particular. So in the broadest sense ask yourself this, what do young men like? If you don't know where im going with the answer to that question then you clearly haven't been paying attention lol.

Super sexy women in video games has never been about objectifying women or dragging down the noble cause of womens rights, or some other feminist ideal. Its all done from the stand point of how can I make the most money. Sex sells isn't just a phrase, its a entire business strategy. People who don't understand this just boggle my mind. They are so fixated on their crusade to stop what they perceive as injustice that they don't realize this is the way it is because this is what people want. I want sexy women in my games and I want them to have impractical armor that shows too much skin and wear high heels to go fight dragons. This is a fantasy and so it should appeal to all aspects of what the target audience, in this case young men, would fantasize about.

The removal/censoring of sex and sexuality from video games is completely without merit. You aren't saving your children's purity. People want sex, and they are going to find it wherever they can. All this does is ruin the authors original intent. Yet here we are in the age where the fanatical crusaders against the most natural, and possibly most enjoyable, act throughout all of humanity have had it struck down as evil and sinister. I honestly weep for the lack of logic our species has sometimes.

the first echo rant i read from to start to finish.

Thank you, did you enjoy it?

yes.
it was a nice read.

Glad to hear it.

would you like to share your opinions?

i don't game so can't make comment on that side.

but i do agree about sex sells.

and people should have freedom on how they design characters, if someone is not happy then they should make a game the way they want it

also about when you wrote about

before children get exposed to games they are exposed to adverts, billboards, TV shows, movies where they have half naked people, they are exposed sexulaiztion before they getting into gaming.

Damn that was long..

Not the rant I was looking for but its works.

Huh, interesting... This point of view is fun... Good job, Echs.

I was expecting a rant about how you hate lolicon so much, but oh well.

that doesn't really need a rant. Children are not meant for sex, being sexually attracted to children is against the fundamental laws of nature. Thats all there is to it really

There's actually a lot more to it than that. It's a deep-rooted subconscious thought that goes very far back in human history. One can say that the past helped shape this "preference" or "fetish" through centuries of tradition and culture. That's not to say you're wrong, but it also means that liking younger women isn't so much as wrong, but rather an oddity. Psychology and the world are funny like that.

You just refuted your own argument by saying "younger women". I am perfectly fine with younger women,beacuse they are still women. The word woman implies adulthood.

Words can have many meanings and the term "younger women" can count children base on the culture, so I did no such thing. For example, as a better explanation and to elaborate, let's use part of what you said, Echs. What you say is true that the creation of life is a beautiful thing that is often censored in visual novels and eroge. Knowing that, one can say that on a psychological level, we as a species are still tied to our base instincts of creating life to pass on our genes and legacy. Looking back at what is acceptable, women often look for strong men who can give healthy and strong offspring. Men often look for fertile women that can produce plenty offspring. This base instinct is where loving "young women" or "children" come from. A young woman who starts her period is often the most fertile host. For this reason, they are highly sought out. If you look through history, in many cultures, most women are sent off to be married the moment they start menstruation. This can be as early as ten to twelve years old. Ten to Twelve! That's unbelievable! To us, a ten to twelve years old is without a doubt a "child," but to past or different cultures, they are considered a "young woman." If you look carefully, there is a reason why this trend continues. It is an instinct that has been around since the creation of man. In the end, titles like "children" or "young women" end up being empty words.

Anyway, whether a base subconscious instinct or just a conscious nurtured/natured preference, some people like young women and some go as far to like children. Yes you see it as wrong and yes for the most part I agree with you, but what we have are sadly just opinions that can be disregarded like how we can disregard there's in return. There's no one way to view the world and that is fine. After all, it would be a very static and boring world if that were the case.

Finally, I would like to add I've had a change of heart and read more of your story.

In ancient times men had no way of knowing when a little girl got her period and became as you say a woman. That is without someone telling him. The attraction to large breasts and wide hips is what came from this time. This is what men could easily see and were signs of being fertile. The fact that in old times girls were married off at ridiculously young ages was because of the fact that the average life span was also ridiculously low. You got to get things moving fast. In the modern age today there is absolutely zero logical reason to be attracted to 12 year olds.

wait what? My story? do you mean the chosen chronicles? when did I give it to you? changes may have been made since then

You just disregarded and misunderstood nearly everything I said, but it's you, so I'm not too surprised

And yes, I read more of it recently during some free time. You sent it to me, remember?

not disregarded, refuted.

well? do you have thoughts on the story then?

Look, you far from refuted it because you didn't even understand what I was getting it at, but I don't care. I'm no going to be Art and try to argue with you. You're too stubborn and it's less painful if we just moved on. Let's talk about your story.

I have the same thoughts I had before. Raw and unpolished, but definitely loaded with potential. Overall, I think it's good. Character favoritism is kind of rampant and could use some more spreading, though. You favor Traydor and Ryomou the most, for example.