[Locked] 2012 Real? Or A Scare Tactic?
Do you believe that 2012 is real?
Voting for this poll has ended.
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Sorry folks, but there's been a bit of a popular misunderstanding. The mayan calendar is actually a perpetual one. All that is supposed to happen are two things: the turning of an age, and a particular alignment of certain celestial bodies. The first event is basically like the turn of a decade. While it's true that they recorded a calamity with each age, that's really not much different than when our historians characterize a particular period with a given sentiment. For example, depending on who you talk to the 60's in the US were a time of : peace and love, backlash against racial oppression, revolution. Now granted, "There came a great wind, and so man turned into monkeys and clung to the trees for safety" [if not exact, that's close to one of them] is a bit fanciful, but it could be a summarization on the level of "The mentally deficient went around killing people, so we stopped them" [The racial violence of the 50's-60's was committed by people so smart, they actually thought skin pigmentation *meant* something. If that's not mentally deficient, I don't know what is.]. And after so many years of the story being told, I could see their history getting reduced incorrectly.
As for the second, I don't put *anything* past the mayans when it comes to astronomy and time. There's a number of things that were getting assigned to their mythology that have turned out to be astronomical observations, such as the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy. Thanks to the conquering priests, very little of their written works remain, so it's hard to say what of the information we do have for them is facts recorded and what is myth, and we have a long history of scientists laughing at their observations, checking them for giggles, and finding out they were correct. Will the world end? Nope, but the mayan works never claimed it would. Just that it would start a new cycle.
As for the second, I don't put *anything* past the mayans when it comes to astronomy and time. There's a number of things that were getting assigned to their mythology that have turned out to be astronomical observations, such as the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy. Thanks to the conquering priests, very little of their written works remain, so it's hard to say what of the information we do have for them is facts recorded and what is myth, and we have a long history of scientists laughing at their observations, checking them for giggles, and finding out they were correct. Will the world end? Nope, but the mayan works never claimed it would. Just that it would start a new cycle.
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That is quite impossible.
i really dont see how that can happen.
people you need to see that religion isnt the way.
its just a bunch of lies.
and if im wrong and this 2012 thing does happen.
seems i wouldnt be going.
i really dont see how that can happen.
people you need to see that religion isnt the way.
its just a bunch of lies.
and if im wrong and this 2012 thing does happen.
seems i wouldnt be going.
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rbz123 wrote...
GourmetPrince wrote...
The world is not what ends in 2012.What ends is religion.
yeah! why can't it be in 2009 cause im tired of brainwashing religions
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Xil
Norse God of Sawdust
Hey now! Religion can have some good sides.
1, it pretty much gives you a good first impression of the targeted person depending on how tipped the scale is leaning to, or away from religion.
2, it keeps the fanatics busy
3, it gives many people something to hate! And without hate, what else is there? I ask you!
But no to the point. 2012 seems kinda random to me... 2000 I can see, I mean that's a nice clean number. But 2012? I see that as people just getting impatient. The world will end, most definitely. A high chance by human hands, tho I don't think 2012 is enough time for that. My driver's license does not expire till 2016!
Tho, I can't say I've never been wrong before...
1, it pretty much gives you a good first impression of the targeted person depending on how tipped the scale is leaning to, or away from religion.
2, it keeps the fanatics busy
3, it gives many people something to hate! And without hate, what else is there? I ask you!
But no to the point. 2012 seems kinda random to me... 2000 I can see, I mean that's a nice clean number. But 2012? I see that as people just getting impatient. The world will end, most definitely. A high chance by human hands, tho I don't think 2012 is enough time for that. My driver's license does not expire till 2016!
Tho, I can't say I've never been wrong before...
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They say 2012 acording to the calander we use, by other concepts of time, it could be a more...pretty date.
But there isn't really any proof of these things, so while anything is certainly possible, it's deffinatly not probable.
Also, bashing religion so harshly makes you too similar to the people you hate than I'm sure you want to be. Judging someone else based on their belief is no better than them judging you because you don't believe it, or judging someone else for believing something entirely different.
Faith is important to mankind, and I think that atheists in general really need to not be such pricks about it.
But there isn't really any proof of these things, so while anything is certainly possible, it's deffinatly not probable.
Also, bashing religion so harshly makes you too similar to the people you hate than I'm sure you want to be. Judging someone else based on their belief is no better than them judging you because you don't believe it, or judging someone else for believing something entirely different.
Faith is important to mankind, and I think that atheists in general really need to not be such pricks about it.
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Dante1214 wrote...
They say 2012 acording to the calander we use, by other concepts of time, it could be a more...pretty date. But there isn't really any proof of these things, so while anything is certainly possible, it's deffinatly not probable.
Also, bashing religion so harshly makes you too similar to the people you hate than I'm sure you want to be. Judging someone else based on their belief is no better than them judging you because you don't believe it, or judging someone else for believing something entirely different.
Faith is important to mankind, and I think that atheists in general really need to not be such pricks about it.
This isn't assuming that humans aren't hypocrites by nature anyways. People will always be judgmental of those who aren't a part of something they are. Atheists see religious people as delusional children who won't let go of their imaginary friends while the religious (mostly monotheistic types) think of those who aren't of their religion are barbaric, immoral heathens. When you boil the whole thing down to the minimum. It's rather silly we all don't get along. It's like we are fighting of which side of the coin we like better. Neither is right and neither is wrong. There is no right and wrong. There is only
Spoiler:
But seriously, there isn't a right and a wrong there is only
Spoiler:
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
This isn't assuming that humans aren't hypocrites by nature anyways. People will always be judgmental of those who aren't a part of something they are. Atheists see religious people as delusional children who won't let go of their imaginary friends while the religious (mostly monotheistic types) think of those who aren't of their religion are barbaric, immoral heathens. When you boil the whole thing down to the minimum. It's rather silly we all don't get along. It's like we are fighting of which side of the coin we like better. Neither is right and neither is wrong. There is no right and wrong. There is only
Spoiler:
But seriously, there isn't a right and a wrong there is only
Spoiler:
lololololol
I was seriously expecting the second spoiler to be the first one though XD
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Captain_Falcon wrote...
lolololololI was seriously expecting the second spoiler to be the first one though XD
I have to throw you a curve every now and then otherwise I'm predictable.
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Bikuri wrote...
rbz123 wrote...
GourmetPrince wrote...
The world is not what ends in 2012.What ends is religion.
yeah! why can't it be in 2009 cause im tired of brainwashing religions
I can't cover that much ground that quickly sir
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Xil
Norse God of Sawdust
Dammit, I lost again! ...one day...
Yeah I know it's not right to judge people just by their belief, but that goes for the same with everything! Don't judge just because they are wearing foul clothing, or if they are sexually different and so on... But it's great to base your first impression off of. Good or bad, that's besides the point.
Like penguin said it's human nature to question that which does not agree with us, or is somehow different then ourselves.
And besides, you need to base your opinion on someone off something. Their belief, amusing they've chosen to display it, often is just the first and easiest to recognize.
If a guy is at your door trying to sell you wallpaper, you curse his name and hate his job. But if a guy "wants to talk to you about Jesus", you have to question if he really has nothing better to do...
Anyway I'm sorry I'm off topic now.
Yeah I know it's not right to judge people just by their belief, but that goes for the same with everything! Don't judge just because they are wearing foul clothing, or if they are sexually different and so on... But it's great to base your first impression off of. Good or bad, that's besides the point.
Like penguin said it's human nature to question that which does not agree with us, or is somehow different then ourselves.
And besides, you need to base your opinion on someone off something. Their belief, amusing they've chosen to display it, often is just the first and easiest to recognize.
If a guy is at your door trying to sell you wallpaper, you curse his name and hate his job. But if a guy "wants to talk to you about Jesus", you have to question if he really has nothing better to do...
Anyway I'm sorry I'm off topic now.
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
Dante1214 wrote...
They say 2012 acording to the calander we use, by other concepts of time, it could be a more...pretty date. But there isn't really any proof of these things, so while anything is certainly possible, it's deffinatly not probable.
Also, bashing religion so harshly makes you too similar to the people you hate than I'm sure you want to be. Judging someone else based on their belief is no better than them judging you because you don't believe it, or judging someone else for believing something entirely different.
Faith is important to mankind, and I think that atheists in general really need to not be such pricks about it.
This isn't assuming that humans aren't hypocrites by nature anyways. People will always be judgmental of those who aren't a part of something they are. Atheists see religious people as delusional children who won't let go of their imaginary friends while the religious (mostly monotheistic types) think of those who aren't of their religion are barbaric, immoral heathens. When you boil the whole thing down to the minimum. It's rather silly we all don't get along. It's like we are fighting of which side of the coin we like better. Neither is right and neither is wrong. There is no right and wrong. There is only
Spoiler:
But seriously, there isn't a right and a wrong there is only
Spoiler:
*lol* the second spoiler is just awesome, makes me laugh a lot xDD
anyway, i think if someone is religious it's ok, but he shouldn't try to make other people religious, especially with this stupid idea that xil mentioned :roll:
Religion could exist hundreds of years at my opinion, as long as they leave alone the unreligious people :lol:
but this nonsense about the worlds end is really annoying... i just don't understand how someone could believe in this shit, sorry :?
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Well, athiests try to convert a lot too...
I understand that everyone is predjudiced; you see someone and you instantly judge them based on their clothes, age, race, etc., even if it isn't extremely significant, you still do it.
I just don't like that the general conception of athiests is as a bunch of dicks who want to sap all hope from the world. Because that makes me seem like a jerk. And I am a jerk, but that's not why. Religious people have more practice at berating you without seeming like assholes while they do it; they've been doing such things for thousands of years. You atheists just need to be more pr friendly.
I understand that everyone is predjudiced; you see someone and you instantly judge them based on their clothes, age, race, etc., even if it isn't extremely significant, you still do it.
I just don't like that the general conception of athiests is as a bunch of dicks who want to sap all hope from the world. Because that makes me seem like a jerk. And I am a jerk, but that's not why. Religious people have more practice at berating you without seeming like assholes while they do it; they've been doing such things for thousands of years. You atheists just need to be more pr friendly.
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Dante1214 wrote...
Well, athiests try to convert a lot too... I understand that everyone is predjudiced; you see someone and you instantly judge them based on their clothes, age, race, etc., even if it isn't extremely significant, you still do it.
I just don't like that the general conception of athiests is as a bunch of dicks who want to sap all hope from the world. Because that makes me seem like a jerk. And I am a jerk, but that's not why. Religious people have more practice at berating you without seeming like assholes while they do it; they've been doing such things for thousands of years. You atheists just need to be more pr friendly.
We Atheists look like jerks because we "fight" or "oppose" religion and what does religion do at the very core? It gives people hope. Thus people see Atheists as stealing the hope that their lives aren't meaningless and that they can avoid death (Eternal life in heaven,reincarnation).
We are kind of getting off topic so to try to fix it: 2012 is a religious belief. Put as much merit into it as you would any other religion. Atheists scoff at the idea that a ancient race could predict the end of the world on a specific date. To me this is along the lines of the Armageddon in the bible in which a series of events occurs and the world ends.
This is not to say that all doomsday theories are religious. Theories on Global Warming, an asteroid striking the planet, the Yellowstone super volcano, etc.
We could debate whether of not the world will end in 2012 until my will to live collapses and I kill myself and even the we'd still have a year to go. If the world ends in 2012, you had a heads up and you should have you shit straightened out. If you don't believe in it then act normal.
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
Dante1214 wrote...
Well, athiests try to convert a lot too... I understand that everyone is predjudiced; you see someone and you instantly judge them based on their clothes, age, race, etc., even if it isn't extremely significant, you still do it.
I just don't like that the general conception of athiests is as a bunch of dicks who want to sap all hope from the world. Because that makes me seem like a jerk. And I am a jerk, but that's not why. Religious people have more practice at berating you without seeming like assholes while they do it; they've been doing such things for thousands of years. You atheists just need to be more pr friendly.
We Atheists look like jerks because we "fight" or "oppose" religion and what does religion do at the very core? It gives people hope. Thus people see Atheists as stealing the hope that their lives aren't meaningless and that they can avoid death (Eternal life in heaven,reincarnation).
We are kind of getting off topic so to try to fix it: 2012 is a religious belief. Put as much merit into it as you would any other religion. Atheists scoff at the idea that a ancient race could predict the end of the world on a specific date. To me this is along the lines of the Armageddon in the bible in which a series of events occurs and the world ends.
This is not to say that all doomsday theories are religious. Theories on Global Warming, an asteroid striking the planet, the Yellowstone super volcano, etc.
We could debate whether of not the world will end in 2012 until my will to live collapses and I kill myself and even the we'd still have a year to go. If the world ends in 2012, you had a heads up and you should have you shit straightened out. If you don't believe in it then act normal.
Penguin, imagine our lives today had all of our time and energy not been wasted on religion. Imagine the sciences, and technologies that would have come to be. This is why I truly hate religion. I often have to go through days faking that I do not hate religion just to have people hear a second word from me. If you ask anyone with more intelligence than a monkey, they will say that the religious people are truly the ones stealing hope.
We might be taking away false hope. But that is much less of a crime then taking away lives and starting conflicts over theories you have about the sky. Do you really wish to confirm the existence of god? Build a spaceship and explore. Don't bow to a book.
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GourmetPrince wrote...
[Penguin, imagine our lives today had all of our time and energy not been wasted on religion. Imagine the sciences, and technologies that would have come to be. This is why I truly hate religion. I often have to go through days faking that I do not hate religion just to have people hear a second word from me. If you ask anyone with more intelligence than a monkey, they will say that the religious people are truly the ones stealing hope.We might be taking away false hope. But that is much less of a crime then taking away lives and starting conflicts over theories you have about the sky. Do you really wish to confirm the existence of god? Build a spaceship and explore. Don't bow to a book.
You're preaching to the choir my friend. I'm the last person that needs to be told about the evils of religions (my personal beef is with Monotheistic religions though)
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
GourmetPrince wrote...
[Penguin, imagine our lives today had all of our time and energy not been wasted on religion. Imagine the sciences, and technologies that would have come to be. This is why I truly hate religion. I often have to go through days faking that I do not hate religion just to have people hear a second word from me. If you ask anyone with more intelligence than a monkey, they will say that the religious people are truly the ones stealing hope.We might be taking away false hope. But that is much less of a crime then taking away lives and starting conflicts over theories you have about the sky. Do you really wish to confirm the existence of god? Build a spaceship and explore. Don't bow to a book.
You're preaching to the choir my friend. I'm the last person that needs to be told about the evils of religions (my personal beef is with Monotheistic religions though)
That doesn't make much sense unless you're talking about the specific followers.
What's worse than one god? More gods.
Obviously.
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GourmetPrince wrote...
That doesn't make much sense unless you're talking about the specific followers.What's worse than one god? More gods.
Obviously.
You never hear of Hindu or wiccans (or various pagan groups) attacking progressive ideas. They don't fight abortions, stem cell research, gay marriage, etc. Wiccans don't give a shit about those sort of things and if they fight against anything it's ecological damages. Out of all the religions they would be closest to researching new methods to work in harmony with the environment such as using landfills as a source a methane gas to power homes.
Hell, when was the last time you heard of a Wiccan blowing up an abortion clinic?
Monotheists tend to have the idea that their religion and their god is correct and all others are wrong. Thus they spend their time fighting everything that doesn't follow their beliefs to the letter.
This will make me look like a dick and will further derail the topic but, the problem isn't religion; it's (non-liberal) Christianity and Islam. Those are the problems that slow down progress.
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
GourmetPrince wrote...
That doesn't make much sense unless you're talking about the specific followers.What's worse than one god? More gods.
Obviously.
You never hear of Hindu or wiccans (or various pagan groups) attacking progressive ideas. They don't fight abortions, stem cell research, gay marriage, etc. Wiccans don't give a shit about those sort of things and if they fight against anything it's ecological damages. Out of all the religions they would be closest to researching new methods to work in harmony with the environment such as using landfills as a source a methane gas to power homes.
Hell, when was the last time you heard of a Wiccan blowing up an abortion clinic?
Monotheists tend to have the idea that their religion and their god is correct and all others are wrong. Thus they spend their time fighting everything that doesn't follow their beliefs to the letter.
This will make me look like a dick and will further derail the topic but, the problem isn't religion; it's (non-liberal) Christianity and Islam. Those are the problems that slow down progress.
That's a broad generalization.
Unfortunately, it's a broad generalization I agree with.
Monotheism based religions (Christianity, Islam) are by far the most ridiculous of beliefs. However, polytheistic religions are no better. Just less worse. If that makes any sense to you.
Basically polytheistic religions focus on sacrificing each other and don't have time to kill people of other beliefs. x]
STILL very ridiculous and old fashioned. You can't be a firm believer in opposing religion if you only oppose monotheistic religions. That makes zero sense. That's like saying you fucking despise pie"...Oh..but um..I'll take a slice of the cherry, I like that..."
...What?
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GourmetPrince wrote...
That's a broad generalization.Unfortunately, it's a broad generalization I agree with.
Monotheism based religions (Christianity, Islam) are by far the most ridiculous of beliefs. However, polytheistic religions are no better. Just less worse. If that makes any sense to you.
Basically polytheistic religions focus on sacrificing each other and don't have time to kill people of other beliefs. x]
STILL very ridiculous and old fashioned. You can't be a firm believer in opposing religion if you only oppose monotheistic religions. That makes zero sense. That's like saying you fucking despise pie"...Oh..but um..I'll take a slice of the cherry, I like that..."
...What?
Let me rephrase. I dislike religion. I hate monotheistic religion due to the fanatic ramblings of most of it's followers and their denial of scientific fact because it goes against their ancient book. Polytheistic is a lesser evil but, an evil I can live with.
I think those who follow a religion without question are inhibiting their ability to acquire scientific knowledge and add to the benefit of all mankind. For all the energy wasted on prayer I'm sure we could be one step closer to curing a deadly illness if that energy was directed properly. All the energy used to build a lavish church we could have built several homes.
Do I personally hate religious practitioners? No. Do I agree with the way the religious fight progress in the name of their "god" or gods? Absolutely not. For every good deed a religious person does to help the world there is another believer that is making the world take a step back whether by violence or using the law to suppress those who don't follow their belief.
I won't hate a person for believing in god. I'll still have a beer with you.
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
GourmetPrince wrote...
That's a broad generalization.Unfortunately, it's a broad generalization I agree with.
Monotheism based religions (Christianity, Islam) are by far the most ridiculous of beliefs. However, polytheistic religions are no better. Just less worse. If that makes any sense to you.
Basically polytheistic religions focus on sacrificing each other and don't have time to kill people of other beliefs. x]
STILL very ridiculous and old fashioned. You can't be a firm believer in opposing religion if you only oppose monotheistic religions. That makes zero sense. That's like saying you fucking despise pie"...Oh..but um..I'll take a slice of the cherry, I like that..."
...What?
Let me rephrase. I dislike religion. I hate monotheistic religion due to the fanatic ramblings of most of it's followers and their denial of scientific fact because it goes against their ancient book. Polytheistic is a lesser evil but, an evil I can live with.
I think those who follow a religion without question are inhibiting their ability to acquire scientific knowledge and add to the benefit of all mankind. For all the energy wasted on prayer I'm sure we could be one step closer to curing a deadly illness if that energy was directed properly. All the energy used to build a lavish church we could have built several homes.
Do I personally hate religious practitioners? No. Do I agree with the way the religious fight progress in the name of their "god" or gods? Absolutely not. For every good deed a religious person does to help the world there is another believer that is making the world take a step back whether by violence or using the law to suppress those who don't follow their belief.
I won't hate a person for believing in god. I'll still have a beer with you.
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