[Locked] 2012 Real? Or A Scare Tactic?
Do you believe that 2012 is real?
Voting for this poll has ended.
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I've always had a feeling that something would happen in the year 2012. However, my thoughts on this topic have diminished somewhat ever since I figured there were multiple theories on this date. Some were doomsday, others were religiously intolerant.
Now I don't know what to believe, so I choose to not believe in any of them until unfathomable proof is presented to me on what is going to happen.
Now I don't know what to believe, so I choose to not believe in any of them until unfathomable proof is presented to me on what is going to happen.
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since there are so few people who actually read the entire thread, this post is probably pointless. but to answer your question, no.
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To be honest, I'm having a hard time taking this 2012 thing seriously. But I respect the beliefs of other people. In my opinion, however, people should focus more on what they have now than to worry for this.
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False hope is a redudancy, all hope is false, really, because hoping is knowing the way something should go, but resisting that thought for the way you want it to go.
By the way, the only reason I'm not a real Atheist is because I can't say that there absolutely is no God, because it's impossible to disprove, and even if it weren't, anything is possible, even to a very very very low probability.
And my only real problem with either side is their malice and militantcy. Hate a preacher for being a manipulative dick, fine, but not everyone with a little faith should be chastised.
If someone has terminal cancer with 6 months to live, and you see them reading a bible, are you going to call them an idiot and start lecturing them on how foolish their being? I'm a heartless bastard, but not THAT heartless.
It's a basic human need to justify their existance. So even if it's a delusion, you can leave some people to be crazy.
But uh... yeah, you can't really figure the exact date of the end of the world without knowing what will cause it.
By the way, the only reason I'm not a real Atheist is because I can't say that there absolutely is no God, because it's impossible to disprove, and even if it weren't, anything is possible, even to a very very very low probability.
And my only real problem with either side is their malice and militantcy. Hate a preacher for being a manipulative dick, fine, but not everyone with a little faith should be chastised.
If someone has terminal cancer with 6 months to live, and you see them reading a bible, are you going to call them an idiot and start lecturing them on how foolish their being? I'm a heartless bastard, but not THAT heartless.
It's a basic human need to justify their existance. So even if it's a delusion, you can leave some people to be crazy.
But uh... yeah, you can't really figure the exact date of the end of the world without knowing what will cause it.
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Dante1214 wrote...
But uh... yeah, you can't really figure the exact date of the end of the world without knowing what will cause it.My vote is on:
In my lifetime: another religious war between Muslims and Christians.
The future: nanobots turning wild and deconstructing everything on a molecular scale turning everything into a weird goo.
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I just want to say that I hate threads about 2012. Every one is the same. First there's the "Do you think it's true?" which is what opens the flood gates. The typical responses are: "not this again," "the world is gonna end," "nothing is gonna happen and anyone who believes otherwise is fucking retarded," and "there's no real point in talking about it, its just gonna be another year." Then, there are some people who jump in with their "religion is bullshit and blah blah blah," which really pisses me off because most theories of 2012 aren't religious, its only that people focus on the worst case scenario, which in most cases, originate from religious presumptions. After that, there's the inevitable derailment of the thread going into how religion is just completely bullshit, there's a whole bunch of bashing of religion, and the thread dies because people lose focus.
The fact of the matter is that if anything associated with 2012 happens, its not going to be solely 2012. All these theories take a great deal of time. You don't just fall asleep with everything normal and wake up in the midst of the apocalypse. That's all beside the point though, because the world coming to an end is not going to be some kind of supernatural occurrence. One possibility is that there will be some kind of major astrological event that brings about catastrophic results that will kill everyone. In that case we'll be shitting ourselves for months, maybe years before it happens. Another is that, fearing the possibility of the end, mankind will go completely apeshit, start rioting, destroying shit, and wind up completely devastating the planet. The way I see it is that if the world ends, it will be from the escalation of the world events occurring right now. The economic crisis, the "war on terrorism," the tensions in the middle east, and all the other bullshit, in 4 years could in fact bring about the end of the world as we know it.
The operative phrase in basically every theory is a change to the world as we know it. That's the one thing I focus on the most in this situation because if anything happens, I believe the world will become better, in one way or another. One such method is that all the wars and shit reach some critical level, everyone starts nuking each other, civilized society is destroyed, and the survivors are left to rebuild. Then there's the cosmic shift in consciousness that I actually find kind of feasible, considering all of the astrological, human, spiritual, and other shit that I won't go into detail about right now.
@Xil: I can't explain it since its been a while since I looked into it, but there is a numerological significance of 2012. In cases where a specific date is given it is 12/21/12, which also happens to be the date that the winter solstice falls on. The solstice, in many traditions is celebrated as a day of rebirth, especially because of the reversal of the Sun's ebbing presence in the sky.
I think that about covers my whole 2012 stance.
Now onto the matter of religion, because of the fact that I like to butt in and play devil's advocate on occasion. I agree that its false hope, but nonetheless, it is hope. Religion teaches morals and if you strip away all the mythology and bullshit, its no different than any culture you'll find in the world. Religion is not responsible for all the conflicts, killings, and negative shit that's going on, its people. The ability to use rational faculties has brought us to a point where rational, in many cases, becomes irrational and vice versa. I'm mostly talking to Firey_penguin and Gourmet because aside from the fact that you guys are the ones talking about it, your dialogue is rather one-sided. I understand that the both of you are atheists and you have made some statements giving religion some benefit of the doubt, but you guys just seem to devalue religion by attacking the extravagance of the various mythologies and stories, while completely ignoring the philosophical value that every single religion contributes.
In the way of philosophy, almost every significant philosopher came from some sort of religious background. If you aren't familiar with Immanuel Kant, you should read some his writings. What really irks me is that you are talking about religious practice impeding scientific progress as if its a bad thing. Now, I'm not saying that the idea isn't a good thing, the fact that many people become isolated by their beliefs is just unhealthy. However, there are a great deal of highly religious people who have made significant contributions to society. The majority of the psychologists that have proposed theories that have shaped the way the field is practiced today come from religious backgrounds. A great deal of advancements in biology, physics, and other scientific fields have been made by religious people in pursuit of empirical evidence to solidify the foundation of their beliefs in society. There is a significant portion of the scientific community that believes that at some point, maybe not in the near future, religion and science will converge on a large scale. If you actually take the time to understand the various beliefs of the world, you'll see that religious beliefs already correlate, albeit with a mystical twist, with many scientific concepts and with the furtherance of the integration of quantum theory in various fields of science, there are unknown possibilities regarding the connections between the two.
The fact of the matter is that if anything associated with 2012 happens, its not going to be solely 2012. All these theories take a great deal of time. You don't just fall asleep with everything normal and wake up in the midst of the apocalypse. That's all beside the point though, because the world coming to an end is not going to be some kind of supernatural occurrence. One possibility is that there will be some kind of major astrological event that brings about catastrophic results that will kill everyone. In that case we'll be shitting ourselves for months, maybe years before it happens. Another is that, fearing the possibility of the end, mankind will go completely apeshit, start rioting, destroying shit, and wind up completely devastating the planet. The way I see it is that if the world ends, it will be from the escalation of the world events occurring right now. The economic crisis, the "war on terrorism," the tensions in the middle east, and all the other bullshit, in 4 years could in fact bring about the end of the world as we know it.
The operative phrase in basically every theory is a change to the world as we know it. That's the one thing I focus on the most in this situation because if anything happens, I believe the world will become better, in one way or another. One such method is that all the wars and shit reach some critical level, everyone starts nuking each other, civilized society is destroyed, and the survivors are left to rebuild. Then there's the cosmic shift in consciousness that I actually find kind of feasible, considering all of the astrological, human, spiritual, and other shit that I won't go into detail about right now.
@Xil: I can't explain it since its been a while since I looked into it, but there is a numerological significance of 2012. In cases where a specific date is given it is 12/21/12, which also happens to be the date that the winter solstice falls on. The solstice, in many traditions is celebrated as a day of rebirth, especially because of the reversal of the Sun's ebbing presence in the sky.
I think that about covers my whole 2012 stance.
Now onto the matter of religion, because of the fact that I like to butt in and play devil's advocate on occasion. I agree that its false hope, but nonetheless, it is hope. Religion teaches morals and if you strip away all the mythology and bullshit, its no different than any culture you'll find in the world. Religion is not responsible for all the conflicts, killings, and negative shit that's going on, its people. The ability to use rational faculties has brought us to a point where rational, in many cases, becomes irrational and vice versa. I'm mostly talking to Firey_penguin and Gourmet because aside from the fact that you guys are the ones talking about it, your dialogue is rather one-sided. I understand that the both of you are atheists and you have made some statements giving religion some benefit of the doubt, but you guys just seem to devalue religion by attacking the extravagance of the various mythologies and stories, while completely ignoring the philosophical value that every single religion contributes.
In the way of philosophy, almost every significant philosopher came from some sort of religious background. If you aren't familiar with Immanuel Kant, you should read some his writings. What really irks me is that you are talking about religious practice impeding scientific progress as if its a bad thing. Now, I'm not saying that the idea isn't a good thing, the fact that many people become isolated by their beliefs is just unhealthy. However, there are a great deal of highly religious people who have made significant contributions to society. The majority of the psychologists that have proposed theories that have shaped the way the field is practiced today come from religious backgrounds. A great deal of advancements in biology, physics, and other scientific fields have been made by religious people in pursuit of empirical evidence to solidify the foundation of their beliefs in society. There is a significant portion of the scientific community that believes that at some point, maybe not in the near future, religion and science will converge on a large scale. If you actually take the time to understand the various beliefs of the world, you'll see that religious beliefs already correlate, albeit with a mystical twist, with many scientific concepts and with the furtherance of the integration of quantum theory in various fields of science, there are unknown possibilities regarding the connections between the two.
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While I am not denying the few positive things that religion and the seriously religious have contributed. Any scientific research that even begins to step on the toes of "god" and suddenly those productive people send death threats, denounce the research as evil then spend untold amounts of money and energy fighting to stamp out that research.
I don't mind when religious people practice their beliefs, they can refuse medical treatment for their children when they have a curable illness. If that child dies they should be held responsible both for neglect and murder but, because of their religion they are able to avoid the law because somehow their religion makes them better than the rest of us. They don't have to follow "our laws" if their 'god' says they don't.
I don't care if they find a particular research "immoral". They can refuse treatment from that research while allowing the rest of us to partake from it's benefits. Instead they try to stop all research they disagree with because of a 2,000 year old set of beliefs.
I can seriously go on forever about how they aren't held to the same standard as everyone else. That is what leads to my hatred. Somehow they see themselves as morally superior to me even though the only law I've ever broken was a couple traffic laws and punching a couple people who deserved it over the years. Somehow they see themselves as better to me. Not because they contribute more to society but, because I don't believe in their imaginary friend in the sky and believe in scientific facts.
I honestly find it impossible to believe that science and religion will converge in a large scale at any point in time. Science is on a polar opposite of religion. Religion is taking something as faith and faith is taking something without question while the very nature of science is to question everything. How is something based on taking someones word for it suppose to merge with something that never takes anyone's word 'just because'. Religion can't be formulated, measured or even replicated unlike science where something isn't taken as fact unless it can be formulated, measured and replicated every time.
Celebrity worship and religion are more likely to become a single entity than the polar opposites of science and religion. Hell, Star Trek or Star wars are more likely to become a religion than science merging with religion.
As long as the religious don't say "You can't do that because my religious beliefs disagree with it" then I'm fine but, 9/10 times social change or modern scientific progress are fought all because "my god says that's wrong" and the very people with that mentality will look down on me as a second class citizen for being an Atheist.
I don't mind when religious people practice their beliefs, they can refuse medical treatment for their children when they have a curable illness. If that child dies they should be held responsible both for neglect and murder but, because of their religion they are able to avoid the law because somehow their religion makes them better than the rest of us. They don't have to follow "our laws" if their 'god' says they don't.
I don't care if they find a particular research "immoral". They can refuse treatment from that research while allowing the rest of us to partake from it's benefits. Instead they try to stop all research they disagree with because of a 2,000 year old set of beliefs.
I can seriously go on forever about how they aren't held to the same standard as everyone else. That is what leads to my hatred. Somehow they see themselves as morally superior to me even though the only law I've ever broken was a couple traffic laws and punching a couple people who deserved it over the years. Somehow they see themselves as better to me. Not because they contribute more to society but, because I don't believe in their imaginary friend in the sky and believe in scientific facts.
I honestly find it impossible to believe that science and religion will converge in a large scale at any point in time. Science is on a polar opposite of religion. Religion is taking something as faith and faith is taking something without question while the very nature of science is to question everything. How is something based on taking someones word for it suppose to merge with something that never takes anyone's word 'just because'. Religion can't be formulated, measured or even replicated unlike science where something isn't taken as fact unless it can be formulated, measured and replicated every time.
Celebrity worship and religion are more likely to become a single entity than the polar opposites of science and religion. Hell, Star Trek or Star wars are more likely to become a religion than science merging with religion.
As long as the religious don't say "You can't do that because my religious beliefs disagree with it" then I'm fine but, 9/10 times social change or modern scientific progress are fought all because "my god says that's wrong" and the very people with that mentality will look down on me as a second class citizen for being an Atheist.
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
While I am not denying the few positive things that religion and the seriously religious have contributed. Any scientific research that even begins to step on the toes of "god" and suddenly those productive people send death threats, denounce the research as evil then spend untold amounts of money and energy fighting to stamp out that research.I don't mind when religious people practice their beliefs, they can refuse medical treatment for their children when they have a curable illness. If that child dies they should be held responsible both for neglect and murder but, because of their religion they are able to avoid the law because somehow their religion makes them better than the rest of us. They don't have to follow "our laws" if their 'god' says they don't.
I don't care if they find a particular research "immoral". They can refuse treatment from that research while allowing the rest of us to partake from it's benefits. Instead they try to stop all research they disagree with because of a 2,000 year old set of beliefs.
I can seriously go on forever about how they aren't held to the same standard as everyone else. That is what leads to my hatred. Somehow they see themselves as morally superior to me even though the only law I've ever broken was a couple traffic laws and punching a couple people who deserved it over the years. Somehow they see themselves as better to me. Not because they contribute more to society but, because I don't believe in their imaginary friend in the sky and believe in scientific facts.
I honestly find it impossible to believe that science and religion will converge in a large scale at any point in time. Science is on a polar opposite of religion. Religion is taking something as faith and faith is taking something without question while the very nature of science is to question everything. How is something based on taking someones word for it suppose to merge with something that never takes anyone's word 'just because'. Religion can't be formulated, measured or even replicated unlike science where something isn't taken as fact unless it can be formulated, measured and replicated every time.
Celebrity worship and religion are more likely to become a single entity than the polar opposites of science and religion. Hell, Star Trek or Star wars are more likely to become a religion than science merging with religion.
As long as the religious don't say "You can't do that because my religious beliefs disagree with it" then I'm fine but, 9/10 times social change or modern scientific progress are fought all because "my god says that's wrong" and the very people with that mentality will look down on me as a second class citizen for being an Atheist.
You're only focusing on a fraction of the religious population of the world. There are those who would, without a second thought, bomb an abortion clinic, but then there's a greater number of the very people that look upon abortion as immoral from a religious standpoint who will condemn those people as just as, if not more, immoral.
Religion doesn't exist to stand in the way of scientific progress and for each religious person who holds themself to a higher standard, there is a non-religious person who does so as well. Science, in this world has become somewhat of a faith. Although there are practical applications and empirical foundations, people have come to lean on science as a crutch when they need answers to shit that really doesn't hold any substantial value in life. In this way, science has hindered the progress of the furtherance of pursuit of what is truly necessary by sidetracking people with an onslaught of bullshit. I'm not saying that science won't ever answer everything, I'm saying science can't answer everything because there are some things that are beyond the practicality and rationale of scientific comprehension.
Religion and science may be polar opposites, but standing between them are spirituality, philosophy, esotericism, and a number of other practices. They're all different, but at the same time they're all interconnected in some fundamental way. A proper understanding of one gives way to the understanding another. Its not as if there isn't evidence to be found supporting something of one field in another. I could clump together certain things I know into certain classifications and although I'll describe things as scientific, philosophical, spiritual, etc., I know that in the end its all just understanding.
As for people who try to impose their beliefs upon others, fuck them. You don't have to believe what others believe, nor do you have to care. So why should you let it bother you at all. Just tell them to go suck a dick, shove it up there ass, or whatever and then walk away.
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The Jesus wrote...
You're only focusing on a fraction of the religious population of the world. There are those who would, without a second thought, bomb an abortion clinic, but then there's a greater number of the very people that look upon abortion as immoral from a religious standpoint who will condemn those people as just as, if not more, immoral. Religion doesn't exist to stand in the way of scientific progress and for each religious person who holds themself to a higher standard, there is a non-religious person who does so as well. Science, in this world has become somewhat of a faith. Although there are practical applications and empirical foundations, people have come to lean on science as a crutch when they need answers to shit that really doesn't hold any substantial value in life. In this way, science has hindered the progress of the furtherance of pursuit of what is truly necessary by sidetracking people with an onslaught of bullshit. I'm not saying that science won't ever answer everything, I'm saying science can't answer everything because there are some things that are beyond the practicality and rationale of scientific comprehension.
Religion and science may be polar opposites, but standing between them are spirituality, philosophy, esotericism, and a number of other practices. They're all different, but at the same time they're all interconnected in some fundamental way. A proper understanding of one gives way to the understanding another. Its not as if there isn't evidence to be found supporting something of one field in another. I could clump together certain things I know into certain classifications and although I'll describe things as scientific, philosophical, spiritual, etc., I know that in the end its all just understanding.
As for people who try to impose their beliefs upon others, fuck them. You don't have to believe what others believe, nor do you have to care. So why should you let it bother you at all. Just tell them to go suck a dick, shove it up there ass, or whatever and then walk away.
It may be the fact I've been up a while but, even rereading this I feel as if the bridge between the various ideas that make up your conclusion as missing to me. Maybe there is a kilobyte of information missing on my end. honestly, this is making about as much sense to me as trying to explain the holonomic brain theory to a six year old.
To me science is as the "scientific Method" put it. Sure, you can follow those steps with anything but, you can't experiment with spirituality.
When I think science I think, gravity, relativity, physics, biology, chemistry. When you branch out you get mathematics, economics, geography,etc. While some consider philosophy as a science I can't understand that logic since I see it as a precursor to science.
While I do joke to friends that I worship science it's hardly a religion. Like I pointed out already the very nature of the two prevent them from merging. Religion takes things of faith just because it's faith. Science can not do that and remain a science. If you theorize something in a religion as part of your faith then people will generally accept it as is. While in the scientific community they will expect experiments and evidence to back up your claim.
Religion was used to explain things that our ancestors couldn't explain. Why did the sun rise every day and various other questions. Now that science is answering these questions the people who cling to religion fight it because their leaders tell them to. This is the reason I believe the religious as delusional due to dismissal of facts and reason while they hold onto the idea that something they can't even prove existed in the first place created the world. Their arguments on their side are only a childish game of "you can't prove it doesn't exist" similar to trying to tell a child that their imaginary friend fluffaluffacus doesn't exist.
Part of their fight is based on their system of "morality" which is another argument in of itself. Stem cell research can cure millions. Yet Christians fight the research and even try to ban it because "it's immoral". Just because it's immoral to them doesn't mean that the rest of us can't receive a benefit from the research. Instead of restricting themselves to their doctrine they restrict the rest of the world because their doctrine says so. Hell, you never see a Hindu organizing a protest outside McDonalds or blowing up a processing plant because "it's immoral".
You are correct that everything is just the understanding of the world around us. Religion was the way of our ancestors. It's time to take the step forward and embrace science and the answers it gives. It's like the Matrix some people just aren't ready to be unplugged from their artificial world.
As for the people who push their religion on others. It's hard to just "walk away" when they use their sheer numbers to change the way my country works. Try to change my constitution, make laws based on their beliefs and forcing people like me who aren't a part of their group to kneel down to their beliefs. Employers can refuse to hire you based on your religion (of lack of one) I know it's "illegal" but, it's up to you to prove it (which you can't). If I put up a satanic symbol in my yard I can guarantee that I would receive a notice or some sort (probably eviction) because of pressure from the local Christians not wanting "my kind" around here. As long as the religious (zealots and non zealots) use their standing to make me kneel to a god I don't believe in then I'll continue to hate them.
Edit: If I come across as arguing for the sake of arguing. It's not my intention to. I just enjoy debating you since you come across as one of the few people who can understand my logic even if we are on opposite sides.
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the best thing to do is be a good citizen ^^.... believe now coz if its true you'll be safe and if its not you should be thankful... and oh yeah i never heard of that issue before... i only knew about it just now...-_-
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lool nop, first time heard of 2012. But seriously, we should focus less on the past predicting what's going to happen and worry more about the problems of today.
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first it was 2000 with the y2k thing then it was 2006 with the whole 666 crap and now its 2012. I do not believe the world will end in 2012 however I can promise you is that the world WILL end, and it will be sooner than you think...
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Umm.... well,i do believe the world will end but i don't think anyone know when it'll happens.
except aliens invade us, fallin' huge meteorites greet our Earth, or some idiot explode new - generation - nuclear warhead around the world! :(
.............
that being case, i hope i'm not around when the Judgement Day comes :)
except aliens invade us, fallin' huge meteorites greet our Earth, or some idiot explode new - generation - nuclear warhead around the world! :(
.............
that being case, i hope i'm not around when the Judgement Day comes :)
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Those adults also use scare tactics way too much. I hardly consider them adults as much as I do frightened children who rely on their imaginary friends to make them look like adults. I am actually quite tired of hearing all this "World's coming to an end" crap, it isn't going to end, unless the incredibly unlikely event of the earth being destroyed by a rock or something else equally improbable. Given the design of our solar system the odds of that are insanely small.
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All I know is that on December 21st 2012 the earth will enter its 3rd world war or we will all FINALLY evolve into... SUPER SUPER BEINGS... or vampires with huge guns. (I always hope 2012=vampires for the sake of anime fandom)/ All I know is that a man named Nostradamus and the Mayans predicted assasinations, 9/11 and WWII. Unluckily their messages are so cryptic IT COULD MEAN ANYTHING.
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i personnaly am not religous but if those that belive in religion think this to be true and it makes them happy then a have no problem with it. however if they start trying to push their beliefs on me then we shall fall out -_- i think i have made my point
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Well, supposedly according to some scholars, due to a mistake in the translation of the dates, this year is 2012.
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Elouj wrote...
Well, supposedly according to some scholars, due to a mistake in the translation of the dates, this year is 2012.What? lol? is that true? if so it's one word for it.
LMFAO
Btw links for that would be awesome as well :p