Serious question for atheists

Oh raven...atheist is evil? that's funny...I thought it was religion who killed the most in human history?
If we are what you call evil...than you are genocidal...

LOL, OH SHIT, YOUR BROTHER AND HIS SONS ARE ATHEIST NOW, THEREFORE ALL ATHEISTS LIKE TO CONVERT OTHER PEOPLE'S BROTHERS AND THEIR SONS INTO ATHEISTS IN THEIR FREE TIME. Oh god, if you're a troll, you're a damn good one.

Wait...

Isn't that half the point of religion? To attempt to convert others to your belief? (Lest they burn in hell or something)

Then what seems to be the problem with an atheist doing something simillar? Really?

And that's going so far as to say atheism is a theist belief. Atheism is lack of religion. Not a religion itself.

Well, answering your question, it´s because we want that people like you understand that God DO NOT EXIST, and religion was just made to control people and take advantage from them. That way we can stop makking a discussion of this topic, so please, UNDERSTAND IT.

Wait a tick.

I'm not religious, but I'll say something about that regardless.

At first religion (belief in a higher power) was basically a story to explain just where the hell it is we came from. Even as an atheist, you have to admit that the statistical chances of us evolving into something as complex as we are is astronomical.

But still, the sheer arrogance of saying that the universe was created solely for us is retarded.

That right there amongst other things are what made me first doubt it all.

I was answering to the topic, but you have a point.

Anyways, we really evolved, I know the chances were astronomical, as you say, but it actually happens. Evidence is undeniable, and astronomers have discovered how everything was made. Yes, astronomers, not just scientists, because they have seen how stars born and die, the same for planets, so regardless of the chances, things happen.

And religion borns with the ones who become the actual jewish. It happens, as both of us know, with the idea to explain things, but for them was hard to pray to the one that gives good and evil to the world, so years later devil was made. This is the beggining of modern religious belief (not counting egyptians or romans, etc.). So, science explains everything.

I have to tell you, my family is 100% catholic, so I really know about that religion. That makes me to investgate other ones, and I passed through 4 different religions before I get it.

Sorry if I bored you about me, but I had to say it.

By the way, my avatar is a demon, say hi to Baal.

this made me realize that i've never heard of athiest missions in underdeveloped countries. i've only seen religions put that much effort into convincing people that the beliefs they've had for thousands of generations are wrong.

Hhah, what a coincedence, mine is too. Albert Wesker. XD



Anyway, it's perfect from your point of view, having decent knowledge on religious views.


I am atheist, even if you couldn't tell. It's just that, how can we expect to ask religious people to consider our views by thinking how we would, if we won't give them the same courtesy? So while I disagree with them I still take them seriously.

Haha, true.

But there are some ones that you should ignore instead of understanding them, because they, as any religious person do, try to convert you, even if is by emotional manipulation, and I know some of them. So, sometimes you have to reject directly their ideas before they try to humilliate you in front of others. That´s my eternal battle.

I know what you're saying.

But I seem to get lucky and meet the understanding kind of religious folk.

Like "well, if you don't wanna believe that's fine...even if I disagree"

Those kind of people are actually quite fun to talk to...

Religion is ALWAYS a touchy subject. It doesn't help when the people arguing it tend to have pretty bias opinions, both sides.

First off, people need to understand the different between Religion itself, and Organized Religion.

Religion is your own personal set of beliefs that you use to explain the why of this world. Everyone has a Religion. Everyone. You could probably explain it as a means of philosophy as well if you want but whatever you call it, everyone has it.

Organized Religion is different. The main purpose of an Organized Religion is to come together with similar beliefs, share your ideas of those beliefs and to help refine yourself spiritually. All converting is technically, is sharing your beliefs with others in hopes that they can refine themselves spiritually.

But as with everything that has power, it can easily be abused.


Btw, for anyone who believes that Christianity isn't monotheistic because of the triniity is somewhat ignorant of that actual belief. This is because while it is a Trinity, the belief is that they are all the same God.

Somewhat confusing, but that is how it is.

Now as for the actual purpose of the thread. Everyone examines everything, as they should, because they want to reaffirm that what they feel and believe is valid and wish to make sure that other forms of beliefs are not what they feel. However, a lot of people don't follow through on how they should, and instead of actually examining the beliefs, they merely dismiss them. This serves no purpose except to make yourself ignorant in the end.

This happens on both sides as well btw.

Now, maybe this is just me, but anyway, I'm curious if anyone else here holds the same viewpoint. I'm an atheist and yet, I don't really care if I'm wrong, because my opinion of the god in question is one of a tyrannical asshat that I wouldn't follow anyway. Thus, whether it exists or not doesn't really concern me, forcibly worshiping it does however. I suppose I come from the "Paradise Lost" school of thought.

Oh and yes, the idea that the universe was created "JUST FOR US" is quite hilarious and reeks of more egotism then I can personally fathom.

That's an odd thing to say, because if you are wrong, you are also wrong about God being a tyrant. If he were a tyrant, there shouldn't be any way for someone to voice a dissenting opinion about him without bursting into flames, and the fact that you can shows (at least to those of us who believe God exists) that he wants people to worship him out of love, not fear.

Why do Christians try to force themselves upon every nation like a plague even where they are not wanted. Why do Christians want to decide what a women can and can not do with her body? Why I ask you? Why? I'll tell you why because Christianity is a big business and with big businesses their is usually a need to expand even when people don't want it. God is just a way to scare kids to being good so parents don't have to do as much work. Because most kids have heard the story if you do bad things you go to hell. It's like 4 year olds and Santa Claus they think I have to be good or no presents until one day they realize that Santa signature has the same exact design as that of your mom or dad's hand writing.

And yet, there's no need to teach kids how to be bad, or how to disobey, since they know that from birth. Obedience, on the other hand, has to be raised into them. Why do you suppose that is?

Maybe so, but I'm going by "the good book" and since that's what (most) believers claim is divine law etc. I'm using it as the same basis. "If he were a tyrant, there shouldn't be any way for someone to voice a dissenting opinion about him without bursting into flames", nice, but it's still "my way or the highway" coercion and isn't really much better in my eyes. If there turns out to be a higher power, I surely hope it's not as vain and petty as humans are, but according to "the book" it seems to say just that. Hmpf, gimme Odin any day, at least he has a cool horse and spear; screw worshiping MALE gods, everyone knows it's all about female deities.

Ok, wow.

That is some downright ignorance right there.

First off, the view of what God is varies depending on what belief you hold of him. Referring to him as a tyrant only shows me that you are desperately wanting to show that you are 'right'.

Religion should never be about who is right. Because none us have a flipping idea what reality is. What we have, is an idea.

That isn't to say they are not important. Ideas are some of the most important things in this world to us. But that doesn't make them anymore facts than anything else.

As for him actually being portrayed as a tyrant, that is only in certain beliefs. Not all of them. Even then, that doesn't mean they are wrong, it's not about being right or wrong.

If you want to take the Good Book. Well first off it was written and translated by the hands of humans. While God is infallible, humans are not and are prone to bias and error. So if your only basis for reasoning is the Good book, then you're not doing a good job at convincing people.

Even within the Bible, there is considerable change in the way God is presented to us. He changes from one of revenge and smite, to one of kindness and caring. Part of it is that we as humans had undergone a change in spiritual growth and that demonstrates the growth. It could even be that God himself underwent learning as well. Just because God is infallible does not mean he cannot change.

All in all, there is way more than you, or anyone is able to recognize so trying to isolate one piece is not really that great of an insight you know.

Okay, I'll need to address some of these points separately as to not have a paragraph of cluttered dialogue.

You are essentially correct when you reference "what you view god is." I come from a fairly basic background in this and thus my views are skewered with a Judeo-Christian mindset.

No one knows all the truths of the universe, but religion does, or at least claims to. How life started, why we exist, etc. all that good stuff. The answers are as of now (and probably ultimately) unknowable.

My reasons for the thought of said god being a tyrant. By definition, a tyrant is a sovereign ruler who uses their power in an oppressive manner (see Old Testament, random divine-approved genocides etc.) So, yeah I would consider the "Judeo-Christian" god to be a tyrant. Other god ideas or impersonal god concepts aren't really applicable in this case.

As for the Bible, yeah it's been translated by humans, prone to obvious error and manipulation. However, it's the source for which man thinks "GOD" is infallible, unless he's told you lately. My basis for my non-belief came from studying religious texts (insert Penn & Teller's Bible episode).

And yes, the change in God in the Bible is rather odd. Since when does a omnipotent/omniscient being need to "learn", "grow", "change" and other things associated with imperfection.

What other "basis" is there? Magic powers?

BTW, you christian?