Serious question for atheists
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Catcher wrote...
And you should change the "religion" that you used to Christianity/Catholicism, because as far as I know, those are the only religions that refer to their higher deity as "God". Unless you're referring to Allah, at which you should have specified.You do realize that all Abrahamic religions, worship the same God, regardless of what they call it.
Rbz wrote...
JuiceBox47 wrote...
Why do atheists feel the need to scrutinize religion?Because we believe in logic and reason and religion, with it's invisible man in the sky who is everywhere, watching everything you do, every minute of every day, doesn't use logic much. But of course, you tell yourself "faith > logic" because there's no fucking way your parents taught you bullshit when you were young, just like parents never bullshit their kids with santa clause.
While religion doesn't seem logical with its magical tales of a big man in the sky and all the incredible shit, it seems quite logical, at least in my mind, to use allegory and different forms of narrative, accompanied by oral tradition, to teach morals, or anything for that matter.
People who tear apart beliefs because they don't make sense, and I'm not just talking about rabid atheists, are usually the ones who don't take the time to put into perspective the inner workings of the teachings of those beliefs.
I'm just gonna stop here, for now.
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The Jesus wrote...
Catcher wrote...
And you should change the "religion" that you used to Christianity/Catholicism, because as far as I know, those are the only religions that refer to their higher deity as "God". Unless you're referring to Allah, at which you should have specified.You do realize that all Abrahamic religions, worship the same God, regardless of what they call it.
Rbz wrote...
JuiceBox47 wrote...
Why do atheists feel the need to scrutinize religion?Because we believe in logic and reason and religion, with it's invisible man in the sky who is everywhere, watching everything you do, every minute of every day, doesn't use logic much. But of course, you tell yourself "faith > logic" because there's no fucking way your parents taught you bullshit when you were young, just like parents never bullshit their kids with santa clause.
While religion doesn't seem logical with its magical tales of a big man in the sky and all the incredible shit, it seems quite logical, at least in my mind, to use allegory and different forms of narrative, accompanied by oral tradition, to teach morals, or anything for that matter.
People who tear apart beliefs because they don't make sense, and I'm not just talking about rabid atheists, are usually the ones who don't take the time to put into perspective the inner workings of the teachings of those beliefs.
I'm just gonna stop here, for now.
I agree. This isn't really a one-sided issue here. It's easy to label the converse side as the ones who are arrogant or misunderstanding, but both religious people and Atheists are guilty of being very closed-minded, typically.
Many Atheists are just as adapt at enjoying destroying the belief structures of others with scientific facts and the lack of evidence of any substantial being, as some Christians are of forcing their belief structure on those who simply don't want to hear it.
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The Jesus wrote...
Catcher wrote...
And you should change the "religion" that you used to Christianity/Catholicism, because as far as I know, those are the only religions that refer to their higher deity as "God". Unless you're referring to Allah, at which you should have specified.You do realize that all Abrahamic religions, worship the same God, regardless of what they call it.
I do believe I later specified that I meant they specifically addressed this God as "God". In the english language. Not whether or not they worship the same god.
myself wrote...
Excuse my failure to specify, PD. I was talking about the monotheistic religions, as JuiceBox is referring to a monotheistic religion. Also, by calling the deity "God", I mean that they specifically say the phrase "God".
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Because humans feel the need to be right and saying god deosnt exest give them that pleasure. in fact religous ppl push there believes on atheists for the same reason. its human nature.
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The Jesus wrote...
Rbz wrote...
JuiceBox47 wrote...
Why do atheists feel the need to scrutinize religion?Because we believe in logic and reason and religion, with it's invisible man in the sky who is everywhere, watching everything you do, every minute of every day, doesn't use logic much. But of course, you tell yourself "faith > logic" because there's no fucking way your parents taught you bullshit when you were young, just like parents never bullshit their kids with santa clause.
While religion doesn't seem logical with its magical tales of a big man in the sky and all the incredible shit, it seems quite logical, at least in my mind, to use allegory and different forms of narrative, accompanied by oral tradition, to teach morals, or anything for that matter.
People who tear apart beliefs because they don't make sense, and I'm not just talking about rabid atheists, are usually the ones who don't take the time to put into perspective the inner workings of the teachings of those beliefs.
And all the morality and beliefs they have accumulated through "logical" indoctrination leads them to be apologetic and closed minded(doesn't necessarily have to be all or both of those). As the world changes, does the religion change? Changing beliefs based on evidence, or changing morality based on what happens in your society/ around you, is not something the religious are capable of because they can only say, god did it/ said so.
Faith > Logic
And here's a little something extra for shits and giggles:
Spoiler:
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Does anybody have any medicines ?
My head blows when I read WHOLE of this topic .
Damn,it's a long,serious discussion .
My head blows when I read WHOLE of this topic .
Damn,it's a long,serious discussion .
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Rbz wrote...
Faith > LogicAnd here's a little something extra for shits and giggles:
Spoiler:
Heh, nice picture. That pretty well somes up a lot, at least when it comes to Christian extremists.
Reminds me of my Calculus teacher. I mean she freakin' majored in Calculus, but she believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old so whenever we had problems related to carbon dating she omitted them from our assignments because she didn't believe in the answer we would find. I mean no one complained because, well... who would complain about less Calculus homework? But it did bother me a bit, plus I think she disliked me because I made no effort to hide that I was an Atheist in high school. Heh.
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Why do religious extremist feel the need to scrutinize atheism? It's fine if they want to believe in God, but why do they have to try to force other people to believe him?
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mixboy wrote...
Why do religious extremist feel the need to scrutinize atheism? It's fine if they want to believe in God, but why do they have to try to force other people to believe him?Unfortunately many religious doctrines state that it is the duty (for lack of a better term off the top of my head) to spread their faith to others. That's what always got me in trouble growing up. I was known as "that" Atheist kid in high school because I would always have some religious asshole trying to push their beliefs onto me and I would tear their religion apart. Somehow the fact that they were trying to push me always got left out of the story, and it was just me trying to destroy the Christian faith. Heh, go figure.
I like to think I'm a tolerate person, and I enjoy listening to some Christians tell me about their beliefs and why they believe, but if you are just going to start barking in my face about religion I'm gonna smack the shit out of you. :P
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Interesting...
from my experience:
most of the Atheists I have personally come across don't even know what an Atheist is; in fact they admitted to me that they said they were Atheist to make Christians/Catholics frustrated. I brought to their attention, after having a heated discussion, that it would be easier and less prone to conflict if they had just said they did not have a religion. Now these are just the Atheists that I had the opportunity to "chat" with!
from my experience:
most of the Atheists I have personally come across don't even know what an Atheist is; in fact they admitted to me that they said they were Atheist to make Christians/Catholics frustrated. I brought to their attention, after having a heated discussion, that it would be easier and less prone to conflict if they had just said they did not have a religion. Now these are just the Atheists that I had the opportunity to "chat" with!
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Tsurayu wrote...
mixboy wrote...
Why do religious extremist feel the need to scrutinize atheism? It's fine if they want to believe in God, but why do they have to try to force other people to believe him?Unfortunately many religious doctrines state that it is the duty (for lack of a better term off the top of my head) to spread their faith to others. That's what always got me in trouble growing up. I was known as "that" Atheist kid in high school because I would always have some religious asshole trying to push their beliefs onto me and I would tear their religion apart. Somehow the fact that they were trying to push me always got left out of the story, and it was just me trying to destroy the Christian faith. Heh, go figure.
I like to think I'm a tolerate person, and I enjoy listening to some Christians tell me about their beliefs and why they believe, but if you are just going to start barking in my face about religion I'm gonna smack the shit out of you. :P
Your Fucking hilarious! I agree with you, though I do not yet Fully know my religion. I like others am fine with any religion.
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I never seen that but...
If evangelicals can bring you to god then atheists should be able to tear you away from god or whatever. Atheists probably just want to help you save time from having to go to church and save you the pain of trying to keep believing that god exists or whatever. Maybe they just want to punch those evangelicals. I know I would. I'm assuming you've never had a guy yell religion at you.
If evangelicals can bring you to god then atheists should be able to tear you away from god or whatever. Atheists probably just want to help you save time from having to go to church and save you the pain of trying to keep believing that god exists or whatever. Maybe they just want to punch those evangelicals. I know I would. I'm assuming you've never had a guy yell religion at you.
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I don't like to get into debates with religious ppl.. too much of a hassle, so i just dont' talk to religious ppl(mostly my entire family) , i just keep to myself and i dont' force ppl to not believe in god, IMO you believe what you want to believe and no1 can tell you otherwise, you wanna believe in god,buddha etc. that's your call and you should stand strong on it,unlike what i like to call "weak" believers lol.
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Jericho Antares
FAKKU Writer
It's a standing fact that all factions, groups, sects, etc have their extremists. Chrisitan and Muslim extremists started and continued the Crusades, for instance. Just as any extremist tries to convert those they disagree with in a religion, the same can be said for the lack of religion. Every human decides the fervency with which the devote themselves in any task. Most people that lecture about why religions are right or wrong are usually the kind of people you don't want to be around anyway.
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Not all Atheist are the hypocrite bastards you see on youtube and forums a lot. Like the saying goes: "The dog that barks the loudest gets the food".
These people scream high and low about their beliefs, probably for a reason, but they don't give a good idea of what most atheists are like. Which leads to situations like this:
These people scream high and low about their beliefs, probably for a reason, but they don't give a good idea of what most atheists are like. Which leads to situations like this:
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JuiceBox47 wrote...
Why do atheists feel the need to scrutinize religion? It's fine if atheists don't want to believe in God, but why do they have to try to tear other people away from him?Why are people trying to educate the poor in Africa, why are people trying to create jobs for the jobless, why are people trying to strive for better health?
Just plain old good sense. To be honest though I never try to impose my point of view to others. However, and I'm sorry if this does not apply to most believers of the faith, religious people tend to try and convert you, they try and find some reason in their faith and they tend to bring it up in discussions. When that kind of thing happens, I feel obliged to make my point.
Like in this case, you, obviously a believer of a certain religion, specifically targetting atheists.
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Jericho Antares wrote...
It's a standing fact that all factions, groups, sects, etc have their extremists. Chrisitan and Muslim extremists started and continued the Crusades, for instance. Just as any extremist tries to convert those they disagree with in a religion, the same can be said for the lack of religion. Every human decides the fervency with which the devote themselves in any task. Most people that lecture about why religions are right or wrong are usually the kind of people you don't want to be around anyway.The Crusades were fought over money, (war is extremely profitable), land and power. As well as the route to the east. Religion was just used as the excuse to rile up multiple nations in order to conquer the east. The church allowed it because they wanted more power, even though they pretty much controlled any Catholic/Christain nation.
As for myself, I don't normally tell people that believing in god is wrong. In fact, damn near every time I've gotten into an argument, I was not the one who started it, but instead the religious person. It starts off by them usually saying
"Do you believe in god?"
"No."
"Why?"
BATTLE START
Vitale explains his reasoning.
The religious (often Christian) follower rages in response and tries to convert Vitale.
Vitale spouts off numerous flaws in the idea of god and their religion itself (Normally having to do with the "Good Book") It is super effective.
Religious follower gains beserk.
Religious follower uses extremist views and threats of suffering in the after-life for all eternity.
It does not affect Vitale.
Vitale uses logic and reasoning.
Religious follower flinches.
Vitale uses trollface.jpg
It's Super Effective! Critical hit!
Religious follower faints.
END BATTLE
I've only ever pointed out flaws, mistakes and contradictions in peoples religions. I have never told them outright that believing in god is retarded. If it is what gets you up in the morning and allows you to do a good job as a human being, I'm all for it. Also, Atheism is far from the right term to be using. Atheism is the complete rejection of theism, most of us still do believe in some sort of theism, just not to the extent that religious followers do. I for one believe in myself and only myself. I make the world around me what it is because of the way I see, react to and deal with, life.
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JuiceBox47 wrote...
Why do atheists feel the need to scrutinize religion? It's fine if atheists don't want to believe in God, but why do they have to try to tear other people away from him?Why do most religions try to force themselves on everybody?
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Longevity wrote...
JuiceBox47 wrote...
Why do atheists feel the need to scrutinize religion? It's fine if atheists don't want to believe in God, but why do they have to try to tear other people away from him?Why do most religions try to force themselves on everybody?
Exactly, why was I forced to pledge my allegiance to a God I did not worship nor believe existed? Why am I currently forced (by threat of fine or incarceration) to pay taxes for schools that hold "bible study" classes? Why is it fair for the religious to use government to force me to pay for classes that teach children doctrine (creation theory)? Yet, they cry fowl when I want evolution and big bang to be taught?
It's all fine when the religious can force me to do or not to do something but, help us all if I tell them to leave me alone.
(I know I shouldn't add to a necro but, what the hell)
Edit; Personally, on the off chance a God exists. I'm hoping it doesn't punish me for not being it's cheerleader but, instead judges me by my actions while i was alive.
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Longevity wrote...
JuiceBox47 wrote...
Why do atheists feel the need to scrutinize religion? It's fine if atheists don't want to believe in God, but why do they have to try to tear other people away from him?Why do most religions try to force themselves on everybody?
Well most speculation would say that religion has become intertwined with the terms "tradition" and "obligation". Some atheists or agnostics would think religion as a tool used by the rich to control the poor. On a psychological standpoint it is quite feasible. Perhaps it is the way of societies to control the masses. Like the definition of good and evil. It is already stated clearly in the religious texts what is wrong and what is right. What is wrong would be associated with the words "hell" or "satan".
It works the best when the person is still a child. A child is like a blank slate, impressionable and whatever he/she learns from the parents or teachers can be interpreted as truth. Those lessons become life values that the child would eventually pass on.
In my opinion the fear factor of religious punishment has become a much needed aspect of society. If the law does not deter a person from a life of crime then perhaps an afterlife of eternal suffering would do the trick. Of course like everything else, it does not apply to everyone.
Personally i would take the fence on this as an agnostic. If there is evidence that god exist, then he exists, otherwise; he does not.