God

For theists, you can either go polytheism, monotheism, or monolatrism. Most people already know the first two, but monolatrism is an aspect that most people usually believe though they are not aware of it. Heck, even the early books of the old testament believes in monolatrism.

Lemme explain first... Monolatrism is a theistic view which indicates you believe many gods and other superior beings, but chooses to worship one god, either with the belief that that god is the most powerful or just through plain favoritism (like if I'll tell you there is a god of porn...)

In the bible, the other gods like Molech, Baal, and Dagon are written and mentioned, even by God (Yahweh Tetragrammaton), as real. Example, in the 1st commandment, God mentions not to worship other gods besides him, saying that he will be jealous of those other gods. Nowhere in those passages have I read that those foreign gods are considered nonexistent.

But still there are is still a single God that it seems every nation seems to agree upon in the old testament. In the travels of Abraham, the Pharaoh bless him in the name of only one God, while we all know that Egypt is a polytheistic country. Many more people are shown in Genesis blessing Abraham in the name of only one God with many titles, like El Elion, El Olam, El Shaddai, etc...

Lawl.

"God does not exist until there is physical proof of what he is made of. OR There is proof that God has influenced our lives."

That's not proof, that's a general statement. To say that he does not exist because you cannot see him is one thing, but to claim he has done nothing to influence anything in the world is a matter of MUCH debate.

Proof that was not. A video of a guy trying to sound like he knew what he was talking about using a bunch of pictures, it was.

The church has influenced the world, god - not so much.

Here's something that got me thinking that God might exist, but doesn't concern itself with us:

I think what you are getting at is the moral incentive that people go by.
Yes, they are alike, but there are also people who society who have a different perception of morality. If they are doing something bad, but THEY think they are doing good, then is it moral?



I don't think anyone can judge, not even oneself. Can't really judge your life after you're gone.



Couldn't agree with you more.



Well, it wasn't a very good joke! :lol:



There is no NEED in faith in him or prayer if there is a God. That is based on what you believe, but an existence of God doesn't necessarily have to lead to hailing God itself. That is just something in religion.




Air, from what I know, does not have a perception of self. I probably doesn't even know it exists! They are elements that cause a chemical reaction, that's it. If God is a creator, he must have had some sort of rule of what just and love is in order to put those "rules" or perceptions of rules in place. Do you not agree?

Just about every thread related to GOD is either a "Holy" flame that can mass produce trolls OR Slowly goes into a talk about how single minded religious people are.


All Ill say is, "Die and find out". Its the best way to do it and the knowledge of it is yours to keep.

That's pretty much the only way to be certain. If you die and there's an afterlife, ok. But if you die and that's it, you won't ever know.

Okey, so how do you distinguish then: worthy(meritorious) action from not, gain from loss, reason and effect from aberration? Or you say you do not judge it in every day life.

and I did not bear in mind the "judging your life after you're gone" thing at all.
That's God's job, if we are speaking of the bible.



[quote:0297121f5b]are YOU accepting the Bible as evidence of his existence?[/quote:0297121f5b](or what he "wanted"(bequeathed?) us to do, by the bible)

if YES then it supposes you to lead your life in faith and/or prayer, or is it not?



Let's imagine that God created Air:
Air gives life to all (his) creations regardless of what they are doing. Is it not love?
We all may use it to support our life (in equal rights). Is it not just?
You may interpret other things in such manner.

And as for "probably doesn't even know it exists!" or "has a perception of self.":
well, I don't know that. You don't have to know you exist in order to exist (so knowing is not necessary for being perceptible).
as for perception - we (humans) percept our selves and reality with our five(?) "senses". In order to certify that air does not have this ability we need to know the reason for our senses to exist/work (why and from what do they occur).

As i recall science discovered that plants can sense their surroundings. But how? after all they are different from us.
And for a little "reason and effect" ride - do you not agree that our senses give birth to our feelings (and that even dogs have them)? so maybe plants can percept too (and so on...) :lol:

I wasn't asking you if that's what he wanted us to do, I'm asking if you believe in the bible as solid evidence of Gods' existence.



No, no no. You see, a PLANT is LIVING (And so is a Dog)! AIR is a chemical reaction between Oxygen, Hydrogen, and Nitrogen. These elements do not follow the 7 Characteristics of life, which are:

Sensitivity
Breathing (or respiration)
Movement
Growth
Feeding
Excretion
Reproduction

Yes, they can move (when the bump into each other), but that is it. In order for these things to be living, it must follow these 7 characteristics.

Now, of course you don't need to be aware of yourself to exist. I agree with you completely.

With the Air example you gave me, Air can not be just or loving. How one or ANYONE (including God I would presume) can judge what is just or loving is when something or someone makes a decision! That decision is then judged on our perception of what justice and what love is. Air allows us to breathe, but it did not choose to submit and be inhaled by us, it just floats where the current takes it! Air gives us all a equal chance to take breath, but it did not choose to let us breath it. Air is random.

Presuming that God exists, God can make decisions (like creating the world or creating a new virus of some sort). God is not random because God has free-will, allowing God to make a decision, where as Air awaits something to push it. The act of creating Air might have been out of love or to create some sort of justice, but Air in itself, in it's existence is not just or loving.

Oh, excuse me, my mistake





[size=10]damn, i totaly forgot about that...[/h] Yes, If that is the current understanding of life, then You are Right my friend.


...so how does the bible explain a chemical reaction between Oxygen, Hydrogen, and Nitrogen?






I assumed we were speaking of "just and loving" thing as of a concept, not a decision.
and I don't know about Air's choosing ability (has air it or not) or even if it needs it.

Taking into account all said above, we state that Air doesn't have our thinking ability - so it can't comprehend justice or love, 'cuz these notions were created by human discourse. Certainty is good thing,ay :)


Okey, here's another interpretation try:

Again, imagine - God Created Earth.
With all of it's survival principles.

In our age(decade) the majority of humankind can rest at ease knowing that there is a thing called "Rights" which bring Security. And living in a city is 99% you can't be eaten by some kind of a predator.

But in the past it was a common phenomena for a human to die a gruesome way from being eaten, stinged, drowned, split and etc.
So how do you think: was God being guided by love or just when he created earth that way?


oh,and P.S.

You are free to belive it Gism.
I don't know it.

No, I am not accepting the Bible as evidence of God's existence.
If I did, then I would agree with you on your second statement.




It doesn't. ;)

As far as air goes, maybe you are talking about attraction to other elements to create a compound of some sort?

I suck at biology. :lol:




If air is existing as we speak, and doesn't need that ability, then it is not needed.



Sure it is! :D



No, I don't think God was.

if it doesn't - Then WHY THE HELL do we need to brainfuck ourselves with that sort of information? (in short the scientific knowledge is not necessary for us to play, laugh, help each other, heed the edifications and etc. - hence live a life and die)



I see your deduction skills are not only theoretic but have a practical basis.
and that is good :)




[size=10]That sure was fast, mate... [/h]
Okey, then let me lead your thoughts and if ya find somethin strange in 'em - ask.


As we already agreed: justice and love, these words, concepts, notions were created by human discourse, by our ability to think. And as i said already


and I remember posting something alike in one of Rbz's threads and still it holds truth:

But to answer my question we need to know the "roots" of these words (love and justice), and i am speaking not about our personal beliefs/views or even their meaning.
Somebody thinked them up long ago, and even if these conceptions were borrowed
from another language/culture - still they were created by human discourse.

And here is the most important question that was hidden in my rhetoric ones:

[size=14]How do humans discourse or what is the requirement to think (or have a thought)?[/h]

That is not so simple to answer. You know how many scientific works out there, explaining incredible stuff but they all reconverge in one:

You need language to think.

That's right. For discourse, analysis, deduction you need to know some sort of a language.

And i am not speaking about hunger, anger, pleasure, pain - these are all emotions/feelings that are usually escorted by thought. That's why they look so similar when example:

But wise people can distinguish feeling from thought. And they don't say shit becouse they understand why they are feeling so and do not mess it with their words/thoughts.

As for the necessity of language to think:
Did you ever notice that you think in your own language and only those words that you know?

---

Okey,I continue - so the requirement for discourse is language.
And here's the main OFFROAD!!! shit that disturbs people:

Did humans invent language or it was given by God?


In present time, when the evidence of God (The Bible was Written/Spoken) or the heritage of language is still a muddle ('cuz it happend a hell alot of time ago) it is only up to you to decide - what do you belive.

Personally - I think humans did it.
And therefore, for our "Just and Loving" question - these things were created by humans.
And if god or ABCDEFG created the world then

there is no point in thinking about it.

Yes it is not necessary. It is merely to UNDERSTAND how the world and the universe works! Just because the Bible doesn't explain it, doesn't mean that we shouldn't go and TRY to discover it out ourselves. Is that not free will as well?




Thank you! :D



Haha, interesting stuff man!

Alright, as far as the language question goes, I have to agree with you, humans made this up.

Again, assuming God exist, this God had to create EVERYTHING from the beginning! I don't mean that God spontaneously creates creatures (but I suppose God could), I mean that God set all the rules in place before putting everything in motion! That would mean, he already had the rule of communication set before we were able to speak. It could have started with hand signals or even grunts. This could have evolved into what we know as a language.

I've never seen anyone create without some sort of list of rules or criteria, even self imposed criteria! This is not imposing that the creation has meaning, just that it follows some sort of requirement.

I assume it had to be planned, in ANY sort of way, before it ever came to be.



Yes, but can language not be translated? Does the word "Yes", when translated of course, not mean the same thing when another person says "Si"?



The bible was written/spoken in a way much differently than what we think of now. It was written in a single place (I believe the middle east, maybe, or some where around there), and what they knew about the world was much less than we know now.

For Example:
The "Noah's Ark" story could have just taken there, and when they refer to "The whole world being consumed by the flood", they could have meant their "world", that area of terrain, which was all they knew!

I know this doesn't go with the language argument, but I just wanted to bring it up! :)

Fuck you, son of a bitch. Your parents are sluts. Your children will fuck you. Now eat shit and die.

This is free will as well.



Don't know that Gism. I know imagination is fiction.



You think in words and it doesn't matter how many languages you know.
An experienced linguist may think in several languages simultaneously. But to fully understand the language you need to know it's culture, in short - live in/by/near it. Why do you usually think in your native language? - cuz your parents teached ya. And translation was developed by humans for different nations to understand each other.

also

yes, that is a nice explanation. It is good you understand it. Cuz millions of poeple lived and died with their simple beliefs that "God created air,water,food and humans" and much blood was spilled for foolish desire to prove that your belief was "Right after all"...

Haha, that's the LAST thing I would want to do! :lol:





Possibly taking out of context, but I think I know what you mean by this, yet there is variation, especially with people who learned 2 different languages at the same time (for me Spanish and English).



It's fine.





I'm glad you agree. I'm not saying it's the right explanation, it's just that it might be the BEST explanation.

But if this is sarcasm, then it didn't make itself across! :lol:

Let's say I'm doubtful.

God could be an alien race just like in Assasin's Creed 2.

1) Believing in God doesn't instantly make you a Christian. It is entirely possible to believe in God and not be a member of any organized religion.

2) Even if one is a Christian, that does not mean that they try to live without ever sinning. That's impossible. The point is to live as best you can. Even if you falter and fail, God will forgive you. If another Christian never gambles or sleeps around, and you do, that does not instantly mean that he is a better Christian than you. It could mean that you have a harder time with things. God wants you to do what you can and doesn't expect perfection. For someone people, it's easy to resist gambling and casual sex. For others, it is almost impossibly hard. If you're the latter, God will be happy as long as you try your best to be a good person, even if you fall off the wagon and indulge in sin, as long as you feel bad about what you did and want to be better.

3) Even though I covered your last paragraph with number 2, I'd like to say that even if someone first came here for porn, that doesn't mean that he/she still comes here for porn. I do come here mostly for the forums; I'd be amazed if I downloaded one hentai manga from here a month. But that's off-topic.

Ever heard of a "Theist"?
Some people believe God is the basis of existence, and THAT'S IT! They don't believe in Jesus or the Commandments, or in any religion.


Yes, I came here for the Hentai first, but I rarely even look at it anymore. I just head straight to the forums, unless something catches my eye.




Yes, that could be a possibility!
By the way, that Game is GREAT!




I would have to agree with you!
I guess people assume that believing in God automatically means you are affiliated with a religion.