U.S.A Opinion

Enough of this!

Holocaust is the holocaust

Will ever know what actually happen? No! We are only told and shown what has happened in others words.
Whither you believe or not, it was a bad thing.

You guys manage to waste 3 pages talking about this gibberish! What is done is done.

This topic was NOT for the use of other conversation other then the one I was addressing.

I WILL NOT tell you guys again to stay on topic! Either leave or stay on the topic that was given.

Those who fail to comply to the demands then this thread will be lock.
Either by tegumi or bobby.

Now if you want to discuss these international problems either create the thread your self or sign up for the writers lounge( I think)

With due respect, intellectual conversation is not gibberish. And at its origins, it had premise. I was attacked by Yuki for suggesting that aligning with the Axis would have been(quite obviously IMO) better policy for America and for the Western/European World.

I perhaps made the mistake here, by bringing up the Holocaust specifically, and I ended up muddling the main point being that War happens. I never once, in any post condoned any murder, or any war crime which we know to be an obvious fact.

I just doubted the level of which is proclaimed, which I believe to be nothing more than propaganda which has served its purpose wonderfully(for the Jewish Community anyway). And hey, that's not blaming them for stretching the truth either. If I could twist things a little, and get a benefit out of it I'd do it too. Heck, Bush did it with Iraq. Hell, all Human Beings would do it.

I'll contend that the main point of this topic however, had been finished by around the 7th-8th page. The truth is, American Opinion will swing on both sides of the pendulum, I as an American Nationalist believing in the dignity of the Homeland, yet that the Homeland has lost all such dignity, pride and honor and is little more than host to millions of politically apathetic people.

Yet at the same time, others such as Jacob will proclaim me arrogant. That America hasn't staked a historic place in World History, and that America's very existence is somehow the doom of worlds.

We wish we were the doom of worlds, or that is to say if we were we'd be the first ones to take reform and these geopolitical problems would simply go away here in the Homeland. Tragically, it's not as simple(nor as truthful) as putting the blame on us for the inability of every 2nd or 3rd world cesspool for its obvious failure to develop.

If we're to blame for anything, it's the faulty investment in the first place which was a blackhole of U.S. Dollars, men and armed equipment(as well as in Libya, the case of diplomats)

Obama proclaims there's a red line in Syria for example, to me, there's no line. Even if Syria collapses, even if the entire Middle East were to burn aflame, not a single American Citizen would or should lose any sleep. Our beautiful American children will continue to be educated. Our army may actually finally be able to return to the frontiers, no longer having to fight this meaningless battle against pathetic brigades of "terrorists".

Let's let the Middle East settle their affairs, and become stronger for our neutrality.

I doubt that, ofcourse America is of historical significance. The argument was about today and even if all these patriots here are not willing to admit it america is not the best place on earth, heck am todayerica is not even the best place to live for people with american ideas.




We tumbled into this because you started glorifying the american army and telling us how they save the world in so many ways. Obviously if you bring up military we will eventually stumble on the topic of WW2

This is a false accusation. I only start taking about the military in the revolution war. I were giving examples of it and then you guys got way out of hand! So either abide by OP rules or leave. That simple.

Since when did you ordain to be the god of the conversation? You started a thread discussion, that discussion reached new premises, evolved and then from that evolution reached new premises. Nosferatu didn't make an accusation, he stated a fact.

Discussions aren't linear in premise, the type of discussions that are singular are the types in a bar or in a public setting. This is the Serious Discussion thread. This is more akin to a debate room.

However, unlike debates between colleges, we don't have a moderator which is actually better in that a linear intellectual discussion is but perhaps a step up from the gathering place in the living room. We all reached a unanimous conclusion(that, as independent thinkers we don't even agree with) and as such it's a front.

A true debate, isn't necessarily one with some moderator acting as a third party observer. But rather, two people intellectually engaging in conversation.

In other words, intellectual honesty cannot be had in an intellectually limiting setting. And yet in each forum I participate in, where I take a circular intellectual approach to the topic in question, I'm often accused of being "off topic".

But that's incorrect, the topic is the same as it always was. It just evolved from its original premise, because we're not discussing in a matter of agreeance. We are discussing, for the point of interpretation, realization and perhaps an even different perspective.

A linear discussion cannot accomplish any of this.

A true debate always and always stay on the main topic no matter what. Unlike you I do not tend to fill 3 pages of ongoing argument. You have been warned!

Warned, by you? Laughable. In fact, it wasn't even 3 pages of argument. The topic of relevance that you're complaining about started on the 9th page! It also seems you have some conceited notion of your own abilities or even connections with the moderators. I've had various in runs with Tegumi, but I think she'd agree your condescending arrogance is out of line. She'd also note that Yuki originally started what would be the "off topic" discussion.

You cannot have a meaningfull discussion if you can't talk about the whole package. Everything is connected. You can't talk about america without talking about everything that is connected to it. That's like discussing how god looks when you havent even discussed if god exists or not.

Anyway I think your aggressive stand is not improving anything if we want to go back "ontopic" we need someone to state something ontopic because I think we were finished with the last statements.

LustfullAngel deserves more respect even if his view is radical and different from yours.

I did not notice this post addressed to me, but I think it's a red herring(and obviously false) to call the Quebec government "Fascist nazis". Quebec merely has the correct notion, that their culture and their territory should be preserved.

Internationalism perverts the individual, in fact completely negates the individualist. To be a Fascist, or in other words to be an individual is to have a sense of self. Politically, geopolitically or personally in your own persona is a natural right.

People born in our current generation may very well be indoctrinated(at a time in their youth) but, as long as information is available(and as long as people are individually conscious), they will choose to preserve that which is important to them: Their own identity.

Also, you made another false notion that I ever endorsed war crimes committed by either the Axis OR the Allies. I simply made the correct political move that not only would have cost much less for America but it also would've actually lessened the lives lost.

A true intellectual or even a true leader doesn't allow emotionalism to get in the way of cold hard facts. A unified European/Western-Asian front would and still IS the key to unifying all of Humanity.

Japan is cool, America sucks donkey balls. Japan has plenty of breathtaking hentai while America doesn't.

The obvious answer is fuck America, Japan is better.

Making it illegal to treat english people in a place with free health care, making it illegal for english people to own businesses, making it illegal for english people to get government assistance. All in a country that has TWO OFFICIAL LANGUAGES. That is the whole idea of nazi fascism.




No, no it's not. And no matter how many times you keep saying it, won't make it true. Fascism is a corruption and evil of the soul. You give up your rights for a militaristic government who do with whatever they want. That is in no way individualistic. Living in a multicultural world that is more interconnected allows you to discover self and explore all cultures to learn more.

Sensationalism, much. Without any proof of claims. I searched through google, and I couldn't find anything verifying that the Quebec government "makes it illegal to treat English people" Or hell, that it's "illegal for english people to own businesses"

Not only didn't I find anything, but what I did find seems that Canadians would rather have Quebec as a separate nation from Canada period.

Here, it speaks specifically of rising costs(and even here, I highly doubt their small businesses are going to suffer) but not an actual ban on speaking English per say.

Bilingual philosophy, taken to its natural conclusion would threaten every native speaking country on the face of the continent!

Americans vastly hold the same position(including yours truly)

You also make more hyperbolic statements, such as "giving up your rights to a militaristic government" NS Germany, for example was one of the more progressive regimes in the 19th century. Yes, I said progressive!

Unification allowed for one of the greatest modern innovations, as well as welfare programs known today

What most depictions and 'educations' on Fascism depicts is literally one blip of the radar. Fascism was and is the greatest political system the world's ever seen.

Not even Noferatsu disagrees. Though he states that such a system requires an enemy. Which is another common misconception. I do not require an enemy per say, but rather I require appealing to the highest reasoning of Americans.

If Americans see opportunities opening up, if they see the reason in caring more for themselves than say, Syria then strengthening the community is but a simple matter.

I've seen 8 businesses just in my neighbourhood go out of business because they are being sued by the quebec government for speaking english in their establishment. China town is having a HUGE problem with this because they can't even print their menus with chinese on them because by law, they are being forced to write it in french. This is nothing short of a sickness that plagues quebec. And many people already want these people out of office, infact they are due to be voted out soon. Honestly, in what free nation is it illegal for anyone of any language to open a store in thier language. If someone wants to open an italian restaurent with italian names in the menu, they have a right to do so without being sued by the government for not having a specific language. If I want to eat chinese food, I expect to see chinese words on the menu, not just french and only french.

This is how retarded they are, and no amount of your online research can prove me wrong BECAUSE I LIVE HERE.





No it is not the greatest political system in the world. Marxism-leninism is thought to be the greatest political system in the world because it is a system of government working solely for the benifit of each individual within it's nation, using the collective power of the people to serve those people. Your tax money goes directly back to you in the form of shelter, food, work compensation, etc. It is also the only system of government that puts athiesm first, allowing a pure use of science instead of having religious zealots blockading progress.

In order for fascism to exist, you need to be a nationalist, and nationalism is a mental disorder that needs to be treated. There is no place for patriotism and nationalism in this world. The human race has made a lot of progress towards unification through global freedom, and people like you will never take that away.

Also quoting what americans want, even if they want fascism, doesn't prove anything considering the general world opinion of americans is that they are fat and stupid. So how can I even take you seriously.

Sorry to bump into the thread like this, I'm just here to speak my mind, so not trying to butt into the overall debate/discussion/conversation/flame war/whatever you want to call it that you have going on.

Now mind you, I could be, and likely am, wrong on many accounts here (especially when it comes to history), but I'm just too lazy to look everything up so I'm writing this from memory.

The Good:
-Historically a pioneer of freedom, equality, modern finance and modern democracy. I can't deny their influence in the end of aristocracy as the most common form of government, nor the example it's set on the subjects of slavery, women's rights and the rise of capitalism.
-Very high political influence. Listed as good mostly to balance out the wall of text a little, and because this has potential to be good. If the US makes a sound decision on something controversial, the rest of the welfaring world is like to follow en masse soon.
-A superpower against the threat of communism (or rather, it's corrupted, power hungry dictator-based leadership) during the Cold War. A fact much of the world will admit, I'd wager. As a finn who paid attention during history classes, I'm very aware how close my country came several times to being a full fledged communist country, and won't hesitate to say it was the existence of the US that, through opposition in both political and military means, stopped USSR from taking over all of Europe, and perhaps the entire world one way or the other.

The Bad:
-Nowadays stuck in it's tracks in the farce of a democracy with only two viable parties constantly butting heads on virtually everything imaginable. What one party tries to fix in the country, the other party is viable to bring down as soon as humanly possible.
-The actual political and financial systems are effectively joined at the hip so badly that it's really no secret that the country is run largely through filthy lucre by thoroughly corrupt politicians backed by huge companies driving their own interest.
-Dated public anything related to healthcare and schooling, high prison population mostly because of the ridiculous war on drugs, ludicrous military budget for the sole superpower of our time (count China if you want, but I'm excluding them because I believe they're not quite there yet).

The Ugly:
-The country's constant pot shots and outright disregard of it's own constitution, as in, the highest decree of law in the country, I believe. The recent wiretapping, indefinite incarceration of it's own citizen's without proper trial, and denying the people's right to protest (free speech) to name some.
-A country where you're free to believe in God, Jahwe, Zeus, Flying Spagetti Monster or just about anything mythical, yet if you openly identify as an atheist you're shunned and hated by damn near everyone. Apparently having freedom of religion doesn't mean you have freedom from religion.
-The country's self-centered attitude in general. Americans are known to be VERY proud of their country and it's past achievements (or at least that's the stereotype, feel free to correct me on this one). The youth are not-so-subtly brainwashed with patriotism starting from around preschool and while information about the surrounding world is not (debatably, I don't know what their current stance on the evolution theory is in schools) outright falsified, it is often presented in a heavily one-sided light. Now, I don't generally like drawing the 'Godwin's Law-card', but the biggest difference I can see between the US and The Democratic People's Republic of (North) Korea is that NK is more transparent about what it's doing.

So in summary, the US's greatness stems mostly from it's role in recent history, but today it's barely a shadow of it's former self when compared to the rest of the world that used to follow in it's footprints. I'm not saying it's a bad country, but what I know about it doesn't allow me to call it a great country either. In fact, it seems rather ironic that the country that helped the rest of us rid ourselves from aristocratic governing is using it's own heritage to reassure us of it's own importance.

Main source of information on the subject has been the Youtube personality of 'The Amazing Atheist', and while I admit the man's not exactly the most neutral source of information himself, at least he's entertaining enough while providing a logical argument when he wants to, and still being informative even when he doesn't need one.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAmazingAtheist

Then I present one of your fellow Canadians to do the arguing for me, problem?

Seriously, this in of itself kills the conversation. If I cannot present any objective facts or analysis of facts to contradict your miserable sensational wailing then what are we doing here?

To supplement the counterargument, the Quebec Act of 1776 virtually makes Quebec an English Colony.

"And be it further enacted by the Authority aforesaid, That all His Majesty's Canadian Subjects within the Province of Quebec, the Religious Orders and Communities only excepted, may also hold and enjoy their Property and Possessions, together with all Customs and Usages, relative thereto, and all other their Civil Rights, in as large, ample and beneficial Manner, as if the said Proclamation, Commissions, Ordinances, and other Acts and Instruments, had not been made, and as may consist with their Allegiance to His Majesty, and Subjection to the Crown and Parliament of Great Britain; and that in all Matters of Controversy relative to Property and Civil Rights, Resort shall be had to the Laws of Canada."

TLDR: All Canadians enjoy laws which come from Canada, Quebec 'sovernignty' need not apply.

Where I got this historic piece of legislation? From my Campus library, thank you :).





Marxism, in all of its well meaning words is merely equality in slavery. With which, those at the top will eventually rule. An Autocracy with peace sounding words

Fascism, on the other hand is the unification of nationalities and individuals. Both with recognizing individual value, yet at the same time removing individual restrictions(IE: Bias).

Fascism asks, not that you give up your rights. But that you equate your rights to be the same as everyone else's. That you recognize other citizens of the country as citizens.

In short, where marxism fails is the complete elimination of the Human Element. Whereas fascism embraces the true nature of mankind.

This is not true at all, I've never seen any open persecution of atheists where I live. And the Amazing Atheist is a faggot.

Well alright, I might have generalized that one a bit, but stories of people being disowned, forced to move, fired from their jobs or accused of all manner of crimes without any proof due to their atheism is a thing I've not heard happening even in the hard catholic countries of Europe (safe for the disowning part, possibly), but these stories are strangely common-ish in the States. And from what I can tell, atheists are afraid to come out of their closets, mostly out of fear of the consequences. Doesn't exactly speak for the country's greatness if people are afraid to exercise their supposed freedom of religion.

As for TAA, I believe he is a bisexual (he got married to a woman not that long ago, I seem to recall), and sure, he's a foul-mouthed, less-than-admirable type of man who basically rants about the stupidity of others for a living. I won't blame anyone for not liking him, yet I'm not sure how him being part of a sexual minority has anything to do with his message.

I suppose it could be possible if one were raised in the bible belt, but I don't think anyone would ever loss their job over their religious beliefs, unless said beliefs were somehow interfering with the success of that job. Here's a bit from a article from the University of Minnesota:

"The researchers also found acceptance or rejection of atheists is related not only to personal religiosity, but also to one’s exposure to diversity, education and political orientation—with more educated, East and West Coast Americans more accepting of atheists than their Midwestern counterparts"(http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2006/UR_RELEASE_MIG_2816.html).

So, as I said above, this sort of thing would only happen in places like the Bible Belt, and even than, I don't believe that any truly militant or extreme prejudiced is commonly encountered. I also don't think it's entirely fair to judge the majority on the actions of a few.

P.S: When I called the Amazing Atheist a faggot, I was using it was a short-handed way of saying that he is a insufferable cunt. It had no relation to his sexual orientation, he could fuck his dog for all I care. However, I could certainly understand why you would think that, and I will be sure to be more precise in my descriptions in the future as to avoid confusion.

*sigh* s always there are some informed and non informed parts to this sort of all encompassing summarization of any one country.



Well in order to make an informed post on a serious topic that will if not sway people into one way of thinking at the very least provide information that one may not hvee nied, it's best to look up your sces or things you say. But at least you'e honest about how much effort you feel like putting into the thoughts you have to share with others.



I'm not sure what you mean by "odern finance" or "modern democracy". Historically the U.S. has been split as to how a democracy should be run, or even how economics should be handled, down to our founding fathers. Today we're not even a democracy, we're a democratic republic. I think this leads to what I actually think is positive about the united states, the free exchange of ideas.



I think it's good because it provides us with many common amenities that we usually would not have access to otherwise. For instance, the fact that we have army bases in foreign countries is one of the main reasons we have any sort of import system, and it's how we're able to keep and maintain an internet, communicating with the rest of the world. It also allows us to keep in touch with what's going on all oer the world so that if anyone needs help, we can get them that help expediently, which we do.



A historical god thing but a good thing nonetheless. The only problem is all the bad that came out of an almost(or not really almost, it really was after a time) dogmatic anti-communist policy.



Ok, so partisan politics exists. I don't see this as a bad thing. Would you prefer to have to vote for people who believe the exact same things ad will attempt to fix issues by using e exat same means? I'd find that to be far more of a farce of a democratic system than only being able to realistically vote for one of two viable candidates that have a possibility of winning. Besides voting third party isn't a waste of a vote. During elections people who win look to all the voters and try and find ways to garner those votes in the future, because they're careeer politicians and want to stay where they are. So when you vote third party along with other people, as small as that number may be the person who wins will look at those votes and say, "What can I do to make sure I get those votes next tieme, what are the important things that these people want addressed?"



It's funny when someone says something patently untrue is "no secret". Things aren't as corrupt as the vast majority of people seem to think they are.



Pretty much agree with this one. Id like to pont out that China has no reason whatsoever to become a military superpower. They can already make or break countries around the world just by stopping their trading with them. The amount of treaties China has with other countries means that when China says, "No trade for you", that country is going to be economically destroyed in no time.



Can you give me a single unconstitutional thing the government has done in recent years? It'll be fun to see. Because if you're referring to the NSA thing, or the Patriot act, or the NDAA, or any other bill sort of similar, I think you'l lbe hard pressed to find that any of them are actually against the constitution in any way at all.



This is dependent on where one's from. As has been explained before the bible belt is certainly a place where atheists are going to be distrusted and outright hated on by the public if they come out. I myself live in Pennsylvania and it's...sort of similar to what one might find in the bible belt. However there are other states where one is almost EXPECTED to be atheistic...like California or New York.



Transparent to whom? It's not transparent to its own people that's for damned sure. And if you can't tell the difference between the United States and North Korea when it comes to the 'education of children' or self centered attitudes, then you have a LOT of information you're missing out on. At least the U.S. helps other countries. At least court cases have been completed that have banned ID from schools and more or less made sure that children are learning real science. At least the U.S. has modenr textbooks written by someone other than our leaders, you know, written by people who actually know what they're talking about. The comparison is completely and totally innacurate.



This seems to be purely opinion based off of what was said previously so I'll just say my own little piece here.

The U.S. is not a great, nor bad nation. We have faults, some of them are more obvious than others. However one of the big things that cause people to think the U.S. is a worse country than it is is nothing more than ignorance. Too many of the U.S.'s own people, and of course people from middle eastern and european countries, get biased views on what's going on in the government and the country that are built upon to appeal to the lowest common denominator of viewers, soversimplifying stories or spinning them to the point where information that is accurate is not getting out to anyone who doesn't do thorough research. I can't tell you how many people I speak to that think the governmnet has violated the constitution in some way who can't tell me what part of the cosntitution has been violated, and besides that, don't even know how unconstitutionality is ruled upon or how it works.

Fuck some people still think the FED banking system is unconstitutional.

Ignorance can beget bliss, but it also begets confidence. And too many people are confident that they know exactly what's wrong in this world, and the U.S. takes a lot of the blame when it's completely and totally unnecessary.



I know him, I've watched him, and while SOME times he has some neat things or entertaining things to say...for the most part he really doesn't know what he's talking about.

BigLundi: You REALLY don't think things are corrupt in the Homeland? The President, for instance campaigned against lobbyists, then he invited lobbyists to join his White House Staff....Opps(I don't even think he mentioned them in his re-election attempt)

Or what about Mitt Romney's 47% comment? While many Liberals were opposed to that sentimental comment, what they neglected to mention(in their own favor nevertheless) was how the comment was made in a private donation by a bunch of millionaires!

The greatest political collusion is occurring right before our eyes: As soon as Republicans lost the 2012 elections, they decided to agree to sabotage the American Public. IE: Amnesty. The Reagan Republicans conceded to it in 1986, and proclaimed it to be the last time. What has happened since? 11 million illegal aliens. Let me put in perspective how this situation could easily have been avoided: My grandmother immigrated to the country around the height of the Cold War(1965-ish). She had since been a Green card holder and when it was time to renew it: Bam, got it done in a matter of weeks to a month.

I don't want to hear their excuses, for various reasons they're undercutting U.S Law!

With 300 million lawful Americans, among them we have a very talented and LEGAL immigration pool, these 11 million criminals will only bog down jobs and discriminate against legal Americans(and legal immigrants)

There's literally no reason to justify this encroachment of millions of Americans and Immigrants, with the exception of a vote for the Democratic Party.

Whether my political career succeeds or is a dud, I will always speak out against Amnesty. For all those who lawfully crossed the border, and for all those who lawfully were born here, raised here, cultivated here and have helped to continue to cultivate our great nation.